8yo DS behaviour is so bad we are contemplating military school

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Hey all, a little history here might be helpful so here goes. DW and I have been together now for 3 years along with her 3 children from a previous relationship. DS1 is 8, DS2 is 6 and DD1 is 3. DS1's father died from cancer shortly after he was born and so he never knew his real father, although he does know about him and keeps a picture of him beside his bed. DW's ex is mostly an absent father, he contacts them maybe once a month and may see them once a year despite having all the access he wants if he requests it. DS2 has also recently been diagnosed as dyspraxic and autistic so there are a number of special measures in our house to handle meltdowns etc. We are also expecting DS3 in the new year.

The problem we have is with DS1's behavior which has reached breaking point. He is a habitual liar to the point that nobody believes almost anything he says anymore, including teachers and friends. His school work is almost non-existant and he regularly loses break times to complete school work (which is still not completed) and getting homework done is like pulling teeth. He is not stupid by any means and knows the answers when challenged, he just refuses to do the actual work. His teachers have now lost all patience with him as nothing they do seems to make him behave either. If challenged on anything he will fly into a rage and claim anything to try and convince people it was not his fault, even when caught red-handed. The second he becomes involved in a game with friends or DS2 or DD, it very quickly escalates into chaos and within 15 minutes we are dealing with at least one crying child. The second he is removed from the game things return to normal, noisy but not out of control.

We have tried a number of punishments and nothing seems to make any difference, including the step, time out, removal of privileges, and missing out on treats. The punishment is handed out and within 5 minutes he is doing the same thing he was told off for which caused the punishment in the first place. He was given anger management training from CAMHS but all that achieved was him further detaching himself from his anger but not actually managing it at all.

We don't really want to do it but we are now considering sending him to a military academy as that is the only thing we can think of that will get his behavior under control. This would be hard for everyone as when he is good he is the sweetest boy I know and we will both miss him immensely but we just can't think of anything else to do with him.

Does anyone have any advice or ideas of anything else we can try without having to go to such an extreme measure?

Sending him away will likely just make things worse imo. I would go back to cahms and a gp and get him counselling. just because he never met his dad doesn't mean he isn't grieving amd without sounding awful if you are his mum's second parter in his life then he is understandably going to have attachment issues.

don't give up on him!!

He's doing it to get attention. Maybe he feels (pop psychology here, maybe completely wrong) that he's a bit forgotten about - he's the eldest, the middle child has additional needs and then there is the "baby" and now a new baby on the way. Perhaps he feels pushed out and a bit insecure at his life changing so much - 3 years in with you and a new baby on the way and grieving for his step dad? (Have I understood that right - his biological dad died and then your dw was with someone else for a long period?)

Have you tried rewarding good behaviour and ignoring the bad unless it's literally dangerous? That's probably over simplistic but he's getting a lot of attention for bad behaviour but I don't see anything about rewarding good behaviour in your post.

Don't send him to military school. Go back to the gp, ask for help. More help. Work together to sort it out.

Is there such a thing as a military academy for 8-year-olds in the UK? Military schools as a place for misbehaving children are something I've only heard about in American films (and they are never a good idea in those either).

In any case, I am sure that sending him away would make him feel so rejected that his problems would only escalate. He needs psychological help (was he assessed for oppositional defiant disorder?) and you need to get back to the school and the GP and CAMHS and persist until he gets it, not wash your hands of him.

Yeah. That'll help make him feel like you don't care about him and need to send him away. Maybe he needs some attention and help to deal with the loss of his father

We don't want to wash our hands of him and we praise him whenever we are able, we are both big on rewarding the positive, but there seem to be very few chances to do so. You are right about the history btw there Fairylea. We have also started to put the wheels in motion for me to adopt all three as well, mostly because as far as I am concerned, they are our children and we want them to feel that way completely. And there are military academies that take children from 9.

We have been to the GP with no results beyond the CAMHS 'help' that we have already received. Ashbergers has been mentioned by the school and he works with the SEN in anger management classes there, and has been for a year, with no noticeable difference to date. While it has been mentioned we have not been able to get any further than that. I know it can be a slow process but, in the short visit he might get with someone, they never seem to see what us and his teachers see.

He has very few friends left at school anymore, and other parents do not want him coming to their house because of his behavior. We have tried talking to him to explain why people are being like this with him but as far as he is concerned, they are to blame and not him because he 'doesn't do anything wrong'

I don't want to loose him but we are scared if he carries on the way he is he will end up in prison or worse (we have already had cases of petty theft which we think is over now but which took the extreme measure of taking him to the police station and letting an officer talk to him)

then you sit in the gp office and you refuse to move until the do something

it definitely sounds like he has emotional issues and sending him away would only exacerbate the situation

go private for counselling if you need to but get that poor boy help

Just looked at the link for ODD with DW and that ticks all but one box (we have never found him to be vindictive) but what would we do to event try and get help with that since the doctors don't seem that interested?

Reading your post I was reminded of my middle boy when he was that age, although he was more inward and had less rage. Interesting that your younger boy has diagnosis of AS. My lad has just been diagnosed, after all these years of school denying and ed psych denying, with AS, at 15. Can you pressure CAMHS into testing for this? If you were to tell them that you are all so out of your depth with him that you're considering sending him to a military school they will have to take it seriously.

But what a thing to do, such a little kid too. I agree with pp that it would be devastating for him. You must be at the end of your tether, and it seems so is he.

Queen Victoria School starts at age 10. Are there any that start younger?

But have you actually looked at what such schools offer? And if so, what is it? Or is it some sort of abstract idea that attracts you?

Because the reality is that these schools are schools for the children of serving personnel. Not a boot camp or under-age part of the Forces.

I think basically you have to make a nuisance of yourselves with anyone who might be able to help until they give in (GP, CAMHS, the school, if they have access to an educational psychologist) or if you can possibly afford it, try and arrange a private assessment with a clinical psychologist.

I don't have personal experience, but all friends of mine with children with any kind of additional need (medical, educational, psychological) have had to be terrier-like in their persistence in getting their children the help they need - the system doesn't work without a lot of pushing.

We really are at the end of our tether and knowing we have a newborn on the way is making it worse. We just can't cope any more. We really are out of ideas and this idea was something that don't even want to consider might be an option but we have no way to keep him under control and make the reasons for punishment sink in. In our minds the hope is that they may be able to handle discipline in a way that makes him understand it is his fault he is in trouble and not everybody else's. It has gotten to the point we dread him coming home because we know the sort of evening we are in for. We were fortunate with DS2 because the school were behind it from day one and helped us to push it all through but with so many parents these days sadly trying to get children diagnosed with disorders so they can get more money, doctors don't tend to listen to the parents any more.

Have you heard of / considered trying "lovebombing" as an approach. Involves making the child feel very special. You can google it or there is a book. May not work if there are special needs involved, but might help with making him feel more secure.

Hope you find a way forward, sounds like you have a lot on your plate.

Things sound really tough. I have to say I agree with other posters that military school may not be what you think it is. It sounds like you agree that your DS has some sort of significant emotional disorder - getting a bigger stick to beat him with (figuratively of course) can't be the answer. He is not behaving in this way because you haven't found a bad enough punishment. ODD could well be a cause. You could look into the local YOT activities. YOT is the youth offending team linked to the police but they do a lot of preventative work in the community before young people offend. They work on the basis that if you can inspire young people to doing things (horse riding, martial arts, duke of Edinburgh) it gives then positive things to be praised for and keeps them out of trouble. They also often do mentoring. I'm not saying this is right for your son but I think you need to get as many agencies as possible on his side and working with you all.
Life sounds really difficult for your little boy (8 is still very little in the grand scheme of things). Speak to the Senco at school to see if there is more they can do to support you.
You said he is the sweetest boy you know. I know things are tough but make sure you and your partner get to think about the sweet stuff and remind him too.

" In our minds the hope is that they may be able to handle discipline in a way that makes him understand it is his fault he is in trouble and not everybody else's."
I don't think any school could ever do that. Sorry.
I'm not even sure that is a valid hope for him.

You said earlier that you try to praise the positive, but there is little of that to praise.
Well a paediatric Nurse friend of mine sets her parents the task of making a star chart and giving their child ten gold stars every day (making a fuss of them for each one). If you don't give the child 10 gold stars you have failed, not the child. The good behaviour can be trivial but at least you are spotting it.

On the other hand: keep a diary, make a nuisance of yourself to the authorities.
Oh and remember not all children on the spectrum are different. What works for one doesn't necessarily work for another.

Erm, 'military'. hmm. There are 2 in the UK, the Duke of York's in the South and one (name escapes me) in Scotland. You have to have been or still be in the military to qualify for your child to go and for the Scottish one, you have to be Scottish or serving in Scotland. They do not instill military discipline in children, they are simply a school for the children of military parents.

There are military prep colleges about but they cater for 16 years + and again, its not like the USA!

I think you may be thinking it would be all 'stand by your beds' etc. its not!

Perhaps counselling and Winston's wish may be helpful as he lost his dad. It doesn't matter that it was when he was a baby.

What have school done to assess his level of need relating to his emotional development.School should have either a thrive or nurture trained specialist who can identify if there has been a "block" which is effecting his emotional development.Unfortunatly it sounds like all the work has been done to this child rather than the family addressing the problem and their role in it as a whole.I would recomend that you ask school to complete a referral to children's services for early intervention.This means that trained practitioners will work alongside the family to identify triggers and the systems that you use to deal with these triggers.If school are resistant ask to speak with your school nurse who can also faccilitate this process.
Military school for an eight year old who has issues with abandonment sounds horrific.I assume it's desperation rather than an actual solution.

Having worked in one of the top residential schools for boys with social and emotional problems,including Aspergers and autism - I would caution you very carefully to think about sending him way from you. Residential has to be the absolute last resort - even children who's parents have abused and neglected them still just want to be back at home and resentment and confusion around being sent away or taken away just complicates already difficult situations.

One of the most important bits of advice / training I ever had was to always understand that poor behaviour is a language and a type of communication - they are using that behaviour because they have no other way of articulating or understanding the emotions they are having. The behaviour is the only way they can express. You need to figure out what the issue is and that will most likely mean finding professional support to do this if the situation is so bad.

Unfortunately as you are finding out, we live in a time when every man and his dog are looking for a diagnosis to explain, in my opinion, bad parenting, (absolutely not saying that is the case here!!), and this is eating up resources. You will have to SHOUT LONG AND HARD to wade past the time wasters and get the help you need.

The most common issue the boys had was attachment disorder and perhaps the loss of a father might have prompted something like this?!?!? Classic approach is to sabotage any relationships that might actually be working. Testing your resolve constantly to see if you will give up on them - its a long slog and exhausting to turn up everyday with a fresh smile on your face but thats what it takes.

In all I think you really need to start looking for professional support.

I would also strongly suggest that you keep a detailed diary of his behaviour. Write a history to this point. Log every meeting with school, ask them for written statements or other evidence they have. All this will help if consulting with GP ext.

But most of all : remember that his behaviour is not him, you may hate his behaviour and it may send you crazy and its probably sending him crazy and he probably hates his behaviour but deep down you do all love each other - you just need to find the way through this. Keep strong - you are doing a great job sticking by him.