How would you handle this sort of rage?

[Brookville]

I have two DCs, 14 months apart; the eldest is nearly 4. I would love your views as I won't get a chance to speak to another human for about 48 hours!
I have a good relationship with the kids and try my best to be calm although DS1's fits of rage test me to my absolute core. Here's what happened today:
DD2 went for her afternoon nap and I did sticker books with DS1. Then household jobs and he pottered. We woke DD2 up, then played in garden and I sat with them while they washed toys with soap and painted with chalk. Then took DS1 round corner on his pedal bike and helped him. He managed to pedal and was pleased. Positive vibes.
I then wanted to cook dinner and they both watched Peppa. I was called in twice by tears of DD2 as DS had hit her on the sofa. The second time I told him he'd be removed if it happened again. And it did. And he was removed. And went absolutely mental. Hitting me, roaring so loud I closed the windows. He wouldn't calm down in his room. I tried to talk to him but he hit me again. His face was red with fury and he was kicking everything in sight. He did eventually stay in his room and threw things down the stairs. It went on for about 30 minutes and only calmed when he started eating.
I appreciate kids have rages but I would like to know better how to deal with it. Try and calm / talk or just leave him to go mental?
DS has been pinching, hitting, poking, stepping on hands since DD was 7 months old so it's wearing. I have read Siblings without Rivalry and a few other titles for some nuggets of wisdom but am still none the wiser...

You are doing great, firstly.
Secondly, I have 3 boys. They need serious physical exercise. No joke. Run him around a park for an hour a day. Will or should help.
Hugs.

Thanks for responding, Dontlaugh. You're right. We didn't get to the park today-the puppy-dog necessity - though he was at nursery.

Have you tried talking to DS about it at another time? I'm sure this is in SWR but I can't remember now as I read it so long ago. But empathising with him that yes sisters can be annoying, sometimes he has two feelings about his sister, he loves her but he also sometimes wishes she would go away.

I think if you were going to remove it should have been after the first or definitely the second time, not leaving it to a third. The first time if you didn't want to separate them straight away you could have said something like "DS we don't hit each other. You need to use your words to tell your sister you're not happy". Could you then have asked one of them to come and help you in the kitchen to separate them and give you a chance to connect with that child while giving the other some space? I think they were tired and probably winding each other up a bit, that time before dinner is a bit of a flash point.

DS used to have those rages and yes there isn't really anything you can do except try to contain it and prevent anything getting damaged or anybody from being hurt and be ready afterwards to reiterate that you accept his "big feelings" but that hitting, throwing things and screaming at people is not okay. DS's worst phase of them was 4, 5 years old, and he very rarely has them now at nearly 6. They do happen but so infrequently, whereas he was doing it multiple times in a week at the worst time. We had a lot of talks when he was calm, at general/neutral times about how it feels when he gets really angry like that and what he could do when he feels himself getting angry like that. He came up with some suggestions, I gave him some ideas, he didn't always remember to use them but they have helped.

Do you think more exercise = less poking and pinching of siblings? He won't play football or tennis or anything with me but maybe if he did an externally- organised session on a weekend it might get him into it.

I think in nursery they are very restricted - even if they go out it's so regimented, it's not like when they go to the park with parents.
Running and lots of it!
I sound like something from the 50's
But it's true!

IME exercise didn't help. But YMMV. DS is in a German kindergarten and they are extremely active in and outside. I think he's just some kind of outlier, though! But definitely talking about the feelings, accepting that anger is a valid emotion but it doesn't have to come out physically or hurting/scaring others was helpful.

No harm with trying everything at once of course

Yes, swimming is good, judo, etc but all age dependent. When he hits 5 there's loads he can join in with, and school will make a big difference also.

Thanks, Bertie, that's really helpful and reassuring to hear about your 6yo. My mates nearly all have placid girls so nobody to bounce ideas off about this kind of extreme stuff.
We did talk a bit at bedtime and he had story time alone with me. He's just not very communicative/reflective (I guess he's only 3) in general and tends to reach boiling point without apparently simmering first. Only ever with his parents, might I add, never rages with CM, nursery or GPs!

That's good! It shows he can control his emotions/rage. If he was doing this outside home, there would be more concern.
Girls seem easier at this age, but is it harder later?? I don't know, I think it's all hard!

Not gender related - my nearly 5 year old DD has the most volcanic screaming violent temper - takes out on everyone. I have tried various things. Seems to be when she is tired or bored that it really kicks off. It is so stressful and embarrassing - none of my friends children are like this. We have done lots of talking about feelings too. She is just about to go to reception and I am worried what will happen in school if she goes ballastic no advice - am watching for suggestions

When mine get absolutely ragey (and it's my DD1 that was the worst in this regard!) they went to their room and stayed there until they were actually calm and quiet and ready to speak calmly about what had happened. We had a policy that we were making their room their safe space and so we did not follow until they were quiet. In the meantime I completely ignored what they did unless I thought they might hurt themselves with something in which case it was removed. They also had to tidy away anything they'd thrown about afterwards.

Afterwards although we did discuss what had happened it would be in a "can you remember why you were angry," "that's a shame you missed out on x" "what would be a better thing to do next time?" "say sorry to y and then we can get on with our day" way

Her peak of awfulness was around 3/4 and slowly slowly the amount of time she took to calm down got smaller and smaller. These days she will sometimes shout, flounce off to her room, come back and calmly apologize off her own bat within 5mins!

So hold on. Stuff gets better. But finding a way that allows him to be angry but not be destructive/hurtful is going to help a lot.

TeWi your solution sounds ideal. I need to have a more solid post-trauma conversation with him. Thank you. So far, it's been hard to get him to actually go upstairs to his room and stay there. He's like a fireball around everybody and won't take himself away to cool off. I sort-of carried him upstairs today and it took a few going-backs on my part to get him to stay in there. He continued to roar at me down the stairs but didn't actually come down for a while. Then roared a bit more at me once he was down. Unpleasant!

The bit that really resonated with me was when you said that he only calmed down when he started eating. I have noticed a pattern with my usually fairly placid DS aged 4, that if he turns into a raging monster, who cannot be reasoned with, once I shove some food inside him, his mood changes quite dramatically. Think it might be something to do with low blood sugar and it usually happens while I am in the middle of getting the evening meal ready.

Not that I am saying that the rest of the advice you have been given doesn't apply, I shall be implementing some of it myself, but this might help curb the rage in the first place.

I carry them up and close the stairgate! But like I said now it's been a few years DD1 will now take herself off if I tell her to or she wants to calm down.

Food! I don't have a child that age (DS is younger) but I know that in my family, blood sugars dropping can lead to much higher likelihood of bad temper (and that's just in the adults!) If you always eat at much the same time, can you factor in a snack an hour and a half or so beforehand, to tide them over but not spoil appetite for evening meal? Something with slow release energy, so you don't get an energy surge then crash either.