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Do your DC wear bike helmets ?

232 replies

Tipsykisses · 03/09/2014 09:13

My Ds has always worn a helmet , he's 7 now and rides really well so now rides to school with Dp (his dad) .

The bikes are kept in PIL garage a few doors down from us as we don't have room at our house , all our nieces & nephews are in and out regularly and ds helmet couldn't be found this morning .

I've told Dp he either needs to find the helmet or we need to buy a new one if Ds is going to continue to ride his bike but he thinks I'm over reacting & says that plenty of children ride without them .

Am I over reacting ?

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Theyaremysunshine · 12/09/2014 06:18

Statistics are particularly unhelpful in this situation. This is a rare event, serious consequence issue and statistics therefore useless, particularly population based ones.

It is basic fact however, that if you fall on your head wearing a helmet it will help protect it. It is a hard shell which will reduce the impact on your skull. That is beyond debate. Aside from the £10 cost, I fail to see a downside.

The chance it will ever be needed is remote. I have seen the consequences of taking that risk in neurosurgical units and my dc will always wear helmets for that remote possibility. It doesn't disadvantage them in any way (no decently fitted helmet covers your ears) and makes them appreciate that cycling is not to be trifled with.

Helmet wearing is completely separate from road safety training, which of course is vital. One does not preclude the other.

LilyBolero · 12/09/2014 15:07

Stats are often very very unhelpful I think!!

The way I look at it, there are different types of risk, and different types of outcome. Whilst it may not be very likely to fall of a bike (though I think it is quite likely to have an accident on a bike tbh, most cyclists I know have had a small number of accidents), hitting an un-helmeted head off the ground can have a catastrophic outcome, therefore it is prudent to take measures to avoid that. A helmet doesn't increase the risk of an accident imo (I know there was that research about car distance, but I don't think if you were to look at stats that people wearing helmets were more likely to be HIT by a car), therefore it's win-win.

AgaPanthers · 12/09/2014 15:54

"It is basic fact however, that if you fall on your head wearing a helmet it will help protect it."

It's not a basic fact at all, since we don't know if it increases the chance of

(a) falling/being hit (studies show that people take more risks when wearing a helmet, and that drivers drive closer to cyclists wearing helmets)
(b) hitting your head in the event that you do fall (we have primeval instincts to protect our skulls - do helmets impact on these; it makes your head a larger target)

"It is a hard shell which will reduce the impact on your skull. That is beyond debate."

Actually it's not a hard shell, it's a compressible layer of polystyrene. The few mm of polystyrene compress in order to absorb a limited amount of energy. A hard shell is NOT an effective design.

" Aside from the £10 cost, I fail to see a downside."

So I take it you wear one when you are driving? Because apart from the £10 cost I fail to see a downside.

"Helmet wearing is completely separate from road safety training, which of course is vital. One does not preclude the other."

They are not separate. Insurers of cycle events typically require cyclists to wear helmets. There is no check that a cyclist is competent. Clearly there is a desire to reduce risk to cyclists, for various reasons, liability, compassion, etc. The existence of a £10 safety product means that in fact in most cases the advice to 'make sure your child wears a helmet' is the only cycle safety message that gets through, particularly in relation to children.

One typically does preclude the other. The parents of this boy, www.nottinghampost.com/heart-ripped-says-dad-son-s-inquest/story-20103421-detail/story.html who cycled from the pavement into the path of a car travelling at 60mph, while wearing headphones, setup a campaign to make it illegal to cycle without a helmet. www.putthingsright.org.uk This campaign also relates to another local boy who died when he joined a main road from a side road without stopping and was hit by a car.

Only one thing would have saved those boys' lives for sure, and it is NOT wearing a helmet, it is basic cycle training (and maybe proper cycle maintenance, e.g., brakes).

The fact is that children are statistically usually to blame in road accidents (this is the reverse of adults, where the motorist is usually to blame). The solution to this is proper training.

I have seen literally dozens of threads on here about cycle helmets. I have never seen a thread about cycle training. This is proof enough that helmets preclude cycle training.

Cycle helmets are a consumption-based 'solution' to a lack of ability (at least in respect of children). 90% of cyclist deaths occur in collisions with other vehicles. Only 10% (or around a dozen a year) involve things like falling off because of a pothole, cycling into a tree riding down a mountain, etc. Therefore the risk that your child, not wearing a helmet, falls off riding in the park, and dies, is vanishingly small. Cars are a vastly bigger threat.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about these subjects:

LilyBolero · 12/09/2014 21:40

It's not an either/or. It should be helmet AND training.

AgaPanthers · 12/09/2014 21:59

But in reality it's only helmets.

mummytowillow · 12/09/2014 22:07

Always, it's just not worth the risk. She's happy to wear it to as it matches her bike!

Any1953 · 12/09/2014 22:43

Interesting summary here:

www.bmj.com/content/346/bmj.f3817.full?ijkey=I5vHBog6FhaaLzX&keytype=ref

But LilyBolero wearing a helmet does increase the risk of an accident if the wearer believes they can take greater risks while wearing it.

If you wouldn't ride a bike without a helmet, then by definition, you are taking a greater risk of falling off the bike when you wear it.

And to quote a 4yo boy I know: "if I had a hat like my friend then I could ride as fast as I like and I wouldn't get hurt".

LilyBolero · 13/09/2014 00:11

Tbh, I find arguments like that crazy.

I don't suddenly drive like a maniac because I'm wearing a seatbelt and using car seats.

I just can't see why some people are so adamant against something that might save their life.

BoomBoomsCousin · 13/09/2014 05:28

You wouldn't have to ride like a maniac to increase your risk Lily, you'd just need to ride a tiny bit faster, go a tiny bit closer to traffic, make a tiny bit closer a call on timing, and have car drivers do the same - some of the time. That's all it takes to change a risk profile. You don't have to go from a sensible, calm rider to a rampaging daredevil.

niminypiminy · 13/09/2014 10:19

That British Medical Journal article is really interesting AgaPanthers. Thank you for linking to it. It shows how complicated the issue is, and sets out the reasons it's complicated in a really clear way.

niminypiminy · 13/09/2014 10:20

Sorry, it was Any1953 who posted the BMJ link. My apologies.

LilyBolero · 13/09/2014 17:03

But there's no evidence that people wearing cycle helmets ride more riskily.

If you've bothered to put on a cycle helmet, why would you assume that you wouldn't bother to also ride with care. The two don't correlate. You could just as easily say that riding without a helmet shows you are someone who takes more risks.

BoomBoomsCousin · 13/09/2014 19:11

Evidence is mixed Lily. Some studies suggest a small risk compensation effect by riders, others show none, and still others show (as you suggest) that people who are more likely to take risks are less likely to wear helmets. The studies are not at all conclusive or numerous. The drivers thing is more consistent, with studies generally showing a small increase in risk from drivers towards helmeted riders compared to non-helmeted, though it's not conclusive either nor that well researched.

AgaPanthers · 13/09/2014 20:19

"But there's no evidence that people wearing cycle helmets ride more riskily."

Yes there is. Why do people come on these threads without any actual facts?

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21418079

"If you've bothered to put on a cycle helmet, why would you assume that you wouldn't bother to also ride with care. The two don't correlate. You could just as easily say that riding without a helmet shows you are someone who takes more risks."

Do you actually ride a bike? Have you seen how professional cyclists, and club riders ride? At high speed and in packs where a fall by one can take out two dozen. And all wearing helmets.

Risk compensation is not necessarily conscious. You don't deliberately ride like a prick.

Bedsheets4knickers · 13/09/2014 20:35

Thurs 4th ds got his new bike. The weds the following wk. he came off the bike down a curb an into a road. Resulting in me (mum) having to jump into road to stop traffic. If the driver that was coming hadn't of been quick thinking I would of def been hit then prob my 4 year old . He's all bruised up 1 leg i don't know if his head made contact with the ground . Just please make sure they wear a helmet because it can all go terribly wrong in a split second .

Any1953 · 13/09/2014 20:40

A lot a lot of my friends wear a lid for racing or training, or mountain biking, or when the weather's bad, or if they are going out in heavy traffic, but not for a relaxed ride on easy offroad paths. That's risk compensaton.

But this thread is about kids and I am quoting a little kid. The full conversation (with a mum and her 4yo) went:
Mum: He wants me to get him a bike helmet.
Little kid: Yes, because if I had a hat like my friend I could ride as fast as I like and not get hurt.
Mum: His friend rides like a lunatic. And I just remember when I had to do my time in A&E, the kids coming in with serious head injuries, and the parents crying and saying, how did it happen, he was wearing the helmet, and I could cry too, because they thought, they really believed, the child was safe. I'd rather he not had a helmet because he knows he must take care.

You might want to read "Risk" by John Adams, which explains the risk compensation concept in more detail, and is a fun read.

LilyBolero · 13/09/2014 20:46

From an article in Australia;
cyclingtips.com.au/2013/02/cyclists-without-helmets-more-likely-to-take-risks/

"University of New South Wales researchers have found that bicyclists who do not wear helmets are more likely to engage in risky riding behaviours and be involved in more severe crashes with cars and trucks than those who wear protective headgear."

and

"“The study evidence presented scientifically dismisses the absurd suggestion by anti-helmet law lobbyists that mandating helmet wearing makes cycling more dangerous overall, with no significant improvement in head injury rates or severity.” Prof. Grzebieta said. “It is a ‘no-brainer’ that helmets are very effective in preventing head injuries in cycle related crashes.”

Dr Olivier said, “The benefits of helmets were clear in this study. Cyclists without helmets had up to 3.9 times the risk of sustaining a head injury, compared with those who wore helmets. The more severe the injury, the greater the benefit: Helmet use reduced the risk of moderate head injury by 49 per cent, of serious head injury by 62 per cent, and of severe head injury by 74 per cent”"

Any1953 · 13/09/2014 20:49

Bedsheets4Knickers, I do hope your little boy is feeling better.

However, just because it seems right to you to insist on helmet, please don't implore other parents to do the same. Another approach would be to not allow your 4yo to ride on a pavement next to a trafficked road. That would protect not only the top and back of his head, but also his face, arms, legs and trunk. The 4yos I was talking about were only allowed to ride in the park away from traffic btw.

Any1953 · 13/09/2014 20:54

LilyBolero, that's in a country where it is the law to wear a cycle helmet. So the people not wearing helmets are breaking the law. It goes without saying that that group of people is likely to include more risktakers, living in urban areas with busier roads etc.

And straight away it's deeply dodgy for a researcher to say "It's a no-brainer that helmets are very effective..." By saying that the professor rules his research useless. You have to start off with an open mind.

AgaPanthers · 13/09/2014 20:58

That's scientifically a lot of nonsense.

The population of cyclists in Australia not wearing helmets might take more risks than the population of cyclists in Australia wearing helmets, but what use is that information?

In Australia not wearing a helmet is against the law, so they are comparing criminals with non-criminals, effectively. And they are surprised the criminal group take more risks? For fuck's sake.

It's also perfectly plausible that those that wear helmets in Australia are on the whole more risk adverse than those that don't. But it's more likely that they wear helmets BECAUSE they are risk adverse, than that they first decided to wear a helmet and THEN became more risk adverse as a result.

The useful data point here is whether helmets make a given individual take more risks, and according to the study above, they do. Population-based studies cannot be compared because the individuals within the population are so different.

Bedsheets4knickers · 13/09/2014 21:45

Amy1953, im sorry but I have to implore the situation. I should add I myself never wore a helmet until am adult. The speed my son hit the floor was unbelievable . It could have caused a massive injury on a path road or in the park. It's not always about being hit by a car but slammo h in concrete and hitting an unlucky part of the head. Arms can be fixed legs can be fixed. A brain injury very different.

Bedsheets4knickers · 13/09/2014 21:53

Slamming his head ,even

Bedsheets4knickers · 13/09/2014 21:55

And thank you he's fine all forgotten. now x

Tipsykisses · 13/09/2014 22:07

Bedsheets I'm so pleased to hear all is ok !!

I have to be honest I'm so surprised at the way this thread has turned out,I had no idea that it would be so complicated .

My Ds in no way believes he can be more reckless if he's wearing a helmet , he would be just as reckless regardless of it as that is his nature !

I just don't want to ever be in the situation of losing a child if it could be prevented as I couldn't take another loss .

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