Does anyone do eat/wake/sleep and it actually works?

[NeedaDiscoNap]

Have been recently trying to use eat/wake/sleep with my ten week old DD, but am finding it tricky and not sure if I'm missing something. I know she is very little but I want to try to avoid feeding her to sleep if possible and thought this might be a good way of doing it (she is bottle fed on expressed breast milk). I noticed she was also getting overtired from being awake too long so thought this might help. Have also been doing a consistent wake-up time and bedtime too.

Sometimes she has a long nap (of two hours), has a full feed, plays for a bit and goes down for another nap - which is wonderful. More frequently, she'll have a shorter nap, feed, fall asleep whilst feeding, nap for a short period, have a bit more milk, play for a bit and then be awake for a good couple of hours until her next feed or want to feed more, even though she doesn't really seem hungry. When she is like this she is often quite grumpy, probably from being overtired. So a lot of the time I end up feeding her to sleep anyway!

My DM has told me (in the nicest possible way!) to go by my baby's cues and to follow her lead, and that I shouldn't be imposing too strict a routine on her. I'm honestly not trying to be too strict - I feed her when she's hungry rather than clock watching (she used to be a big snacker so have managed to get her onto full feeds) and am flexible with naps - but I'm finding it a bit soul destroying. Any advice?

It's tricky isn't it!

I tried a bit of that with DC1 (I know it as EASY - eat, activity, sleep, you time (ha!)). I think you're right and that it's best not to get into the habit of feeding to sleep if you can avoid it. And I think you're saying that you would like a bit of a predictable rhythm to your day, as opposed to being haphazard or having a rigid schedule? If that's right I can empathise with that! Personally I got a bit stressed out that I wasn't doing it "right."

What I eventually did and repeated again with DC2 was: 1) Find out the guide awake time for the baby's age and 2) Learn my baby's particular sleep signs. The guide times are generally give or take a half hour, it's really just a rough idea, the baby might be sleepy sooner or later. When it got close to the guide time for how long the baby should be awake for, I would start watching for sleep signs. It took me an age with DC1 to realise and recognise them - her's were eye rubbing and finger sucking, yawning was a very late sign of tiredness with her. DC2 stops engaging and starts making grumbly noises. As soon as you see the first hint of tiredness, quick nappy change then off to bed. To avoid feeding to sleep or cat naps at the breast, just feed before you get near the guide time, but it doesn't need to be as soon as they wake up if they're not hungry.

This had worked well for both of mine, once I eventually figured it out. If they are overtired it takes a long time for them to fall asleep and they might just refuse to nap altogether. If they're not overtired when they go down they generally sleep better and for longer. I think it has also allowed us all to have a rhythm to our day, without overriding the baby's cues. I think the most important bit is to learn what your baby's tiredness signs are and go with those.

Hth, I am very tired writing this and I think I might be rambling a bit!

At 10 weeks, I just kind of went with the flow. I got up at the same time, and put my baby to bed at the same time each evening (roughly) but in the middle was just played by ear. She was super portable at that age so I figured it didn't matter - she fed when she fancied, snooze in the pram (on walks, in cafés etc)/car/on me at leisure.

I think we fell into a more established routinue by 5/6 months when she started solids. It just seemed easier when actual meals were involved. Now, at 8 months we've got the sleep, eat, play thing pretty much nailed (except at bedtime when it's reversed to have the last milk feed before sleep).

I know girls who have played it both ways. No advice really but the few of us in my group who just went with it seemed to get out more and be far less stressed! M

Thanks for the replies - that's really helpful. Bedtime is working ok, and the first nap of the day (touch wood) has been consistently good. Think I do need to be a bit more flexible - I do have a tendency to be too controlling!

I'll continue to work on other naps by watching her wake time - I'm getting a bit better at it I think. She napped beautifully all day today (might be to do with a long walk in sea air) but now I suspect she might be teething!

we sort of did EASY with DS (he's 5 now so trying to remember). I think it ended up being more AESY to be honest and it was more the case of just going with the cues and it eventually sort of fell into a pattern (rather than a routine). I wouldn't worry too much about feeding to sleep just now - its way to early to be starting on the "rod for your own back" worries and "teaching" them bad habits. Just go with it for now, maybe keep a note of what happens each day on a pad (or there are apps now I believe if you're that way inclined) and that will help you identify the patterns as it can be surprisingly hard to remember from one day to the next when and for how long they slept. Just helps you if you're trying to plan a day out if you have a rough idea of when they might sleep / feed etc.

Thanks fairylights. Have my pad already (told you I was controlling!) and am writing down feeds and naps to keep track of it all. I do need to go with the flow a bit more during the day I think - she is definitely falling into a wee pattern at certain times of the day, just need to make sure I'm reading the cues correctly.

Don't know how you are feeding your Lo, but if she's bf did you know that the Baby Whisperer is on the Kellymom list of books to avoid.

I found Babycalming very good and it's written by a BFC and is evidence based, unlike Baby a Whisperer

I didn't follow a routine so this may not be helpful, but I found that the natural pattern of a newborn is (roughly) to feed, sleep, then wake and be alert for a bit before wanting feeding again. It seems like a bit of a hopeless battle trying to insert the awake/alert part in between feeding and sleeping. Breast milk contains sleepy hormones as well so it's actually designed to help them sleep. Why fight what nature has given you? I mean hey, it's useful to have an instant sleep inducing tool

I did eaesy with a few more E's if needed, and gradually left a bit if a gap between e and s. worked well for us.

That's interesting Bertie. She isn't breastfed but is bottle fed, mainly on expressed breast milk with a bit of a formula top-up. I do feel like it's a losing battle trying up get her to eat then have wake time then sleep. It is much easier to do it the way you and fanjo are suggesting. It does seem a bit counter-intuitive to not feed her before sleep during the day and then feed her before sleep at night.

Well I guess the hormonal bit won't be there in formula, but still the action of suckling induces sleepiness in babies, and it's warm and comforting and they are being cuddled. Sounds like a lovely way to get to sleep to me! I always did it this way and DS stopped being reliant on it of his own accord as he got older, so don't worry that it's creating bad habits or whatever it is people say.

It has worked very well for me for my 2, I only started at 10 weeks though and wasn't terribly rigid about it. Don't try and time awake times, just go with the baby's sleep cues. A yawn, a rubbing of eyes, get ready. 2nd yawn/rub - head ffor nap location. By the 3rd they will definitely ready to drop off. If you miss "the window" I found they got all hyper again and it was impossible to put them down until they had wound down again. Don't work to a schedule aside from bedtime, just go with the flow.

Thanks everyone for such great advice. I am feeling stressed about it if I'm honest and I don't want to be like this with her - it's affecting my enjoyment of being with her because I feel anxious about creating bad habits. Silly I know.

I do need to get a better handle on her sleep signs - she does yawn, but I suspect this is quite a late sign for her. I haven't noticed many others apart from her eyes going a bit glazed over.

Please don't get stressed over EASY, it's just one woman's opinion and not even based on any research.

Try this book instead

Habits are really NOT worth getting worked up over. Babies change what works themselves with enough frequency anyway. Do whatever is working right now and when it stops working or it becomes a problem, change it then. There's always a way to change things and if you ever get stuck feeling worried about something, ask yourself how many 18 year olds are sleeping in their parents' bed (or being breastfed, or spoon fed, or refusing to dress themselves) the night before they leave for university? :) I know you hear horror stories about eight year olds who don't sleep through the night, but the reality is that there's probably another cause for that which you can't control - contrary to the supernanny idea of "This has gone too far and must stop right now!" and a huge battle, any problem behaviour or reliance can always be weaned off or stopped gently at the point which it is becoming a problem. You don't have to a, have a huge fight about it, or b, let it get to the point where you're so desperate you need to have a huge fight to have it change ASAP.

Routine - it really depends on whether it helps you or not. Some people find it easier to go with the flow and others prefer to know what to expect to happen when. Long term, it's going to make no difference at all, honestly, so pick whichever works for you right now.

Neither of mine have slept for any length of time on a half full stomach. DD fed to sleep but DS self-settled from birth (v odd after all the shenanigans we had with DD!) but they've both liked a full tummy for their sleep.

Also, the one thing to remember is that books are written to be SOLD. They wouldn't sell a single copy if they wrote truthfully about how hard it can all be

I'm feeling so much better after reading these replies - thanks everyone. Sometimes you can be trapped in your own intense little bubble can't you?

Need to stop getting so worked up. Was much more relaxed about everything today and she had lots of naps when she was tired. Going to stop stressing myself out as today has been far more pleasant than the past couple of weeks.

Ironically, I said to my DH that I couldn't remember what I did with her before, and he said "you were much more laid back, and so was she as a result." Lesson learned I think.