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I cannot cope with my children, and I am tempted to put my eldest on a flight back to Britain.

62 replies

QuintessentiallyQS · 27/07/2014 22:22

I know they fight and bicker, but they have taken manipulation to a new level. They know I dont want to punish the non-culpable child, so they both deny their own part in what has been going on, as well as coming up with so many stories I cant see right from wrong.

We flew out to Norway on Friday evening.

I am so tempted to send ds1 back to Britain on a flight tomorrow evening, so dh can take him to a camp and bring him back with him.

But, the repercussions are going to be too big. Ds2 will then be treated to quality time with me, while ds2 have to fly home alone and go to a camp he will not enjoy, so that is disproportionate.

But, I have no control over them. They dont do as they are told. They are putting pressure on for me to buy them things, and the are not doing stuff I am asking of them. Ds1 told me this morning that he would have cleaned up his clothes, if only I had done as HE asked me, and ordered him a new phone cover that he had tailored himself on a made to measure website. His words "All that would have been avoided if you had only done as I told you" Hmm

They started fighting on the pavement outside the shopping center, because they got impatient when my phone rang. It was a friend, and I was trying to arrange for her eldest to meet up with mine. They were not listening to me saying stop it several times. Ds1 said "It would not have happened if you were quick on the phone or had gone straight to the car". It is as illegal to talk on the phone here as in Britain!

Yesterday I could not get them to bed until past midnight. They currently share a room, and they were faffing about, in and out of bed, and generally being a nuisance. I was so wound up by their behaviour that I did not manage to fall asleep until 2 am. Woke up this morning by ds1 screeching at ds2. He had woken him up by climbing down from the bunk bed.

On the airport, coming here, I let them buy some sweets. I told them they could not have it all in one go, but to make it last. All gone. They even polished off the Hotel Chocolat that were treats, behind my back.

It seems to me that they are punishing me, or letting me have consequences for not doing as they want. The phone call and the fighting, the clothes mess on the living room floor (ds1 had emptied out the suitcase to find his phone charger) and the phone cover.

We were also late to leave the house yesterday because I battled so long with them over tidying the clothes (which they did not do in the end) that we were too late to buy shoes for ds2 before closing time.

It is so frustrating. I dont know where I am going wrong. I try so hard to be fair, but they are playing me.

After the shenanigans yesterday I told them if they were playing up at bedtime again, ds1 would sleep on the sofa of my sisters top floor flat, and ds2 in the sofa of my dads flat on the ground floor.

We are currently staying on the lower ground floor.

Of course they played up, and I had to stick to it. Sad

I am a failure.

OP posts:
Are your children’s vaccines up to date?
Unexpected · 28/07/2014 00:48

They have you wound round their little fingers. One or both misbehaves and if they are out of sight, neither gets punished because you don't believe in punishing the innocent. Well, they've worked that one right out! Time to play hardball, both get punished.

Why do they have to share a room and keep each other awake if there are all these sofas and beds in flats? Keep them apart at night and get some sleep yourself.

If they misbehave and are refusing to pick up clothes etc. then just don't go out. Their loss. Keep them in different rooms at home and just let them be bored.

ReallyTired · 28/07/2014 00:57

You have my sympathy. My twelve year old is vile. He has moaned non stop. I had to break a promise to take him to Mary Rose because of a vomiting bug. I feel guilty because I completely lost it with him. I told him that I was glad that he is staying with his cousins next week. I just pray he treats sil better. My sil tells that ds can't be worst than her boys.

I can understand why the upper classes send their kids to boarding schools.

Bettercallsaul1 · 28/07/2014 02:45

You sound as you are having a terrible time OP - you have my total sympathy.

Although the boys seem to be acting up together as a unit, it sounds as if your older one is starting to act like the teenager he almost is and rebel seriously against your authority, whereas the younger one is possibly just following his example. I would treat your 12-year old as an adolescent, rather than a naughty young child and adopt a two-prong approach. As regards the phone cover incident, I would have taken him aside calmly (ie forcing myself to be calm and take control) and, firstly, explained things to him as an adult - that phone covers (especially bespoke, self-designed ones) are expensive, luxury items and not owed to him in any way. You need your money for essentials and no-one has a right to demand these things. He can ask for them, and you can consider his request and decide if it is affordable at this time. Try and explain things factually and as dispassionately as possible: if you let him provoke you, it is a victory for him. Then explain that answering "yes" to his requests depends very much on his tone of asking, and whether or not his general behaviour has merited it. ( This is the point to specifically bring up the clothes which were not tidied and the fighting which continued after you had told them to stop.) Calmly explain that good behaviour will be rewarded while poor behaviour will earn no privileges.

The next thing is to make it clear that, although he is getting older, you are still in charge. Tell him that while you will always listen to what he wants to say, you will not be threatened or talked to as if he is your equal in authority. Let him know that if he speaks to you in an inappropriate way, there will be certain consequences and spell out what they will be so he knows what to expect. Think about what would be fair consequences in terms if loss of privileges in advance do you can be completely firm and confident in what you are saying. Confidence is key -if he senses you that you're getting upset or wavering, he will take advantage of the situation immediately and try to take control.

The above will not work overnight - you have to be completely consistent over weeks and months to restore your authority. It is a difficult task on your own and it is a pity your partner isn't there with you to share the work. Rather than thinking about sending your older son home, would it be possible for your partner to come out and join you? If not, get your partner on board as soon as you get home - this is a problem that needs a strong united front from both if you.

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Bettercallsaul1 · 28/07/2014 02:47

Sorry - so , not "do".

Thumbwitch · 28/07/2014 04:25

Quint I'm going to agree that if they're using your policies against you then it's time to change policy - punish them both indiscriminately until they both stop or one turns on the other. Their attitude is outrageous - they are practising intimidation and bullying tactics on you! Do/would they do this with their father? Are they thinking that because you're female they can get away with this? Because if there's any sniff of that even then you need to stamp on it as hard as possible as quickly as possible.

spamm · 28/07/2014 04:27

Take their phones away - they do not need them, even when you go out. Why would you loose them? Write your phone number on their arm and they do get away, they can ask somebody to call you.

No sweets, no treats, they have to work hard to earn them, and they have to earn their phones back. And instead of paying them for weeding, make the weeding a punishment.

spamm · 28/07/2014 04:35

By the way, you are a great mom and you must remind them that they need to work with you, not against you!

hesterton · 28/07/2014 05:54

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Romeyroo · 28/07/2014 06:04

Yes, DD has my phone number in her bag/ pocket. I bought her a phone and she never used it.

Agree with all the suggestions so far. Would also suggest that you name the behaviour - the 'I only did x, because you did y'; ' if you had bought me x, this would not have happened', is bullying, controlling behaviour and is unacceptable. It is not acceptable to you, nor in any other relationships in his life. It is as simple as that.

Agree re not trying to disentangle who did what. If mine go beyond a certain point in arguing, I do exactly as you did which is separate them. As a PP said, you have beds and sofas, use them. They don't get back in the joint room till they apologise and behave properly.

LoveBeingInTheSun · 28/07/2014 06:07

Think sometimes you are being too fair, giving too much of the benefit of the doubt. We're you unfairly punished as a child?

It is bang out of order what they are doing and you need to take back control ASAP.

Batmansbuttocks · 28/07/2014 07:08

My DS was vile at 12 and said things like that. It was so upsetting and I started imagining he was some kind of sociopath.

He's 17 now and fab.

You are trying too hard to be fair. Punish both. Zero tolerance for bad behaviour. They can smell your exhaustion (some kids can do that) Smile

MiscellaneousAssortment · 28/07/2014 23:01

Poor you, they're being very clever at learning the nastier side of human interaction. Maybe taking it from school yard nastiness and bringing it home, or just lut of their own nefarious imaginations! And now you have to help them learn the consequences Flowers

I think the wall is a great idea!!! You deserve a break and it's nog doing any good them being with the family at the moment.

I do think you're being super kind and fair mummy, and they're using it to tie you in knots. I think it's really good to not be constantly punishing them, but paying them to harden when the reason the family is home is they frazzled you!!! You do realise you're rewarding them for their behaviour?

I would punish both equally in a situation when they won't own up. Tell them that this will happen, and that although its 'not faaaaaair!' it's absolutely not fair on you at the moment, and not behaviour you can reward. Look for moments of goodness to reward liberally, but stick to the dual punishments each time they behave like pack animals.

I agree with the family meeting, when back home, where you and DP can show a united front, and also get them to think through how their behaviour is hurting you. They're old enough to show empathy, but they could do with a reminder. Set out new behaviour rules, and new consequences. Make sure the consequences punish them, not you! And remember to be consistent do you don't punish them with one hand and reward them with the other.

Take the older one aside and have the 'you're getting older' chat. I'd actually think up some new freedoms, and some new responsibilities. Then he can earn new and 'grown up' freedoms, but with great power comes great responsibility! And it all gets cancelled if he's horrible to you. No keeping them to be fair!

Clamp down especially on the nasty consequences rubbish they're pulling. That's a nasty little power bid and bullying to boot. Grrrrr.

It must be hard, new parenting strategies for a whole new age...

QuintessentiallyQS · 29/07/2014 00:01

Oh god, what have I done.

I am sending my kids north to the wall!

I have booked them to go to camp. My youngest, 9, has never slept away from me. Ds1 has been away lots, camp in Y5, Y6, and ski trip and history trips in Y7. Tae Kwon do camp when he was 9. 12 now, so seasoned! But ds2 has never been to any camps!

I think they will have a fantastic time. Hiking, fishing, kayaking, rowing, etc. But it is as far north on the "mainland of this planet" as you can possibly come.... There wont be any polar bears, but there will be tundra. Reindeer, and salmon.

I am literally feeling sick with nerves. My tummy has tumble dried since I got the confirmation.

I am not doing this because I want rid of them, but because I recognize it will be good for them, and that they have spent every summer the last 4 years here, and they do find it a bit boring. Especially without their dad here. They will return from camp the day before he joins us.

I am consoling myself that their beloved cousin is in the leadership team on the camp, she is 19, and the camp manager is a GP!

Please tell me it will be fine and I am doing the right thing! Please reassure me it will be a great experience for them!

OP posts:
QuintessentiallyQS · 29/07/2014 00:03

I should add, they have been on perfect behaviour today.

OP posts:
BadRoly · 29/07/2014 00:10

They will have a splendid time and you will get a break. Ds2 will have his big brother to look out for him so that's covered and you can use your time to plan how to deal with any resurgence of yesterday's behaviour.

I hate it when mine all go 'bad' together, I find it all escalates and I can't see a way out but if I can get just a bit of respite to gather myself and formulate my rewards/consequences/srptrategies, it all comes good again.

QuintessentiallyQS · 29/07/2014 00:14

I hope so, I really do. I tend to worry rather a lot.

OP posts:
Thumbwitch · 29/07/2014 00:16

Of course it will be fine! They won't have time to be bored, they will meet new people as well as seeing their cousin (who can keep an eye on them if that's required) and it might knock them into shape re. the disgustingly bullying behaviour they've been displaying!

All round positive, can't see the problem at all. Plus you get a chance to rest and regroup - shame their father can't get there before they get back, is there any chance that can be changed? Give you a day or 2 together without them, so you can have some time and also have a chat about how you're going to deal with their behaviour (if it starts again) in a united fashion.

Your 9yo will have his brother and his cousin there should he feel at all concerned about being away from you - he will be FINE.

ZeroSomeGameThingy · 29/07/2014 00:34

Please could I have the name of the camp?

Can any child go?

stealthsquiggle · 29/07/2014 00:52

With their cousin there, they will both be fine, and hopefully being away will cause them to team up on a positive way. It sounds wonderful, BTW.

Well done you. Now all you have to do is to find a way to relax and enjoy the rest, and regroup for their return (hope for the best, prepare for the worst).

MiscellaneousAssortment · 29/07/2014 02:51

Well done, will do everyone good

toomuchtooold · 29/07/2014 06:45

Yes! I've been reading through the posts on this thread and I had nothing to offer you but sympathy but I am SO GLAD you decided to send your kids to the camp! The change of scene might be just what they need but also, everyone deserves a break including yourself.

lljkk · 29/07/2014 20:06

pmsl @ ZeroSGT.

ZeroSomeGameThingy · 29/07/2014 20:24

... But it was a serious questionGrin

(Sometime over the last few months clueless aliens have replaced a perfectly lovely, if stroppy and argumentative, 12 yr old with a piss poor, Grand-Theft-Angry imitation. No one is fooled, but we feel honour bound to house and feed and attempt communication with the creature. It's going to be a long old summer. And heaven knows what they've done with the real child.)

AuntieStella · 29/07/2014 20:29

That camp sounds fantastic!

I think you're doing the right thing.

Buttercup27 · 29/07/2014 20:40

So you are now rewarding their bad behaviour by sending them to a camp where they will have a fantastic time. Good luck when they return!