Have I been too hard on my sons?

[QuintessentiallyQS]

I have two sons, 12 and 9. They bicker a lot, and they have a vicious circle of revenge for something the other has done earlier/before. I have spoken to them both about being nice to each other separately, and together and on many occasions. Ds2 hit ds1 hard with a bottle on his collar bone just yesterday, because he got annoyed that ds1 made rabbit ears behind his head as I was taking a picture. Moments earlier ds1 had refused to stop singing (in the car) and ds2 got annoyed and yanked ds1s hair. I am so sick of this constant bad behaviour.

DS1 is off school for summer. He asked if he could make brownies. I told him he could, on the condition that he cleaned up after. Fine, he promised he would. I asked him twice to start cleaning up before I went to pick up ds2. I told him I did not want to come home to a dirty kitchen with a full sink, as I needed to get them dinner prior to taking them for their trampolining.

I came home and hour and a half later, and the kitchen was still a mess after baking. He says he forgot. He was on his PS3.

(Now, the ps3 is a bit of a problem, as he is kicking up a right fuss if we tell him his screen time is over. )

I told him I was disappointed he had not done as he had been asked, and I reminded him the conditions for his baking, which were to clean up before I needed to make dinner. I asked him if he thought I would be keen to let him bake again? He got so angry he started screaming at me that he "fucking forgot" and I was home so soon.

I disconnected the PS3 and took it to the shed. I could see he was upset. I told him the worst part was not that he was upset about his behaviour, but the loss of the ps3.

I left them in the garden on the trampoline to go and sort dinner. Next thing I know, they are bickering, and ds2 comes running in saying that brother called him "fucked up". Lots of toing and froing over who said what and did what first, so I have sent them both to their rooms.

I have told them I am not taking them trampolining, and in future ds1 (who joined last - gymnastics and trampolining is ds2s sport and his life) will not be coming trampolining as I dont want them together.

Am I too harsh? WHat can I do?

and breathe. No I don't think you are being too harsh . Bad language, winding each other up, disobedience all warrant punishment/loss of privileges and they need to be earnt back. However iirc your ds1 has had a tough year and may need a bit of slack while he diffuses any remaining frustration. Nonetheless he is old enough to channel it elsewhere imho.

Yes, ds1 has had a really tough year, I take it you have seen both my recent threads.

But, we need to stamp out the swearing, the shouting and overreactions, as well as the bickering in between themselves.

I have two sons that bicker constantly. It is exhausting.

However, I think it is lovely that your son even wants to bake brownies. AND I think it is standard 12 year old behaviour to get side tracked, and then very angry when challenged for forgetfulness.

Often mine will blame each other even more when I get cross with one. It ends up being a competition rather than proper discipline, and they are left thinking that the other is wrong rather than genuinely taking any responsibility. So I suppose what I mean is, it is not a very efficient way of challenging the behaviour.

If I was a saint I suppose in that situation I would have made a point of starting again with ds1 another day when I was in the house reinforcing the habit of putting the baking stuff in the sink and washing it up. I don't think that many teenagers will do much when you are not there reinforcing it. But then in the long term habits do stick and before you know it he won't be able to stop himself washing up. Mine now put their plates in dw without thinking not because it is has become a habit.

Sibling Rivalry by Mazlish and Faber is a very helpful book imho. I must reread it

"now" not "not"

stamping out is a quite a strong reaction too. I wonder whether it creates a bit of a backlash from the boys. I often feel like you, but I know it doesn't help when I get very angry. Because then they get angry and confused and defensive. And they cannot even remember what it is they are meant to be doing to improve.

But separating is often a good idea. I do that a lot, and dh makes the mistake of thinking it is too cruel to ban one from what the other is doing, when in truth I think the boys are relieved to do separate activities. Mine are 14 and 12.

Well, he is finally cleaning the kitchen, and I am really disappointed beyond words. If he had done it yesterday, it would have been a simple job. But with flour and crumbs now everywhere, he will have to hoover and mop the entire ground floor.

I have added emptying the dishwasher.

I had the long talk to them both yesterday about expectations and showing some gratitude.

I drive half an hour, each way, pay £36 per person per month for trampolining, plus a £3 parking fee each time, for the privilege of sitting on a low sports bench for an hour every Friday night.
I told them, "boys, hurry up, spend 10 minutes cleaning up the kitchen now and we will still have time to go". Ds1 said "nah!", ds2 said "nah, it is not my mess to clean." So I made it clear that I am not spending 2 hours every week, paying £84 per month, for them to have fun, if they are unable to spend 10 minutes filling a dishwasher and wiping down surfaces.

I am cancelling trampolining for both of them, and they will need to find local sports that will benefit them more. Ds2 has chosen football, and ds1 tennis - he can get himself to and from the tennis club.

I am still pretty pissed off to be honest. It is not just the cleaning up, but the piss-taking and entitled attitude.

The only good outcome of this is that I will now have a reason to NEVER allow ds1 to bake again ever.

Hi

I don't have experience of this stuff, my kids are still toddlers. But I don't think you were unreasonable in your OP. However I do think stopping baking forever is unreasonable. Especially if the ps3 is a problem, you are taking away a good alternative activity. How about they don't get to eat what they've baked till they tidied up?

tennis and football sound an excellent solution. The path of least resistance!

Again very impressed that your son can mop and hoover.

I feel for you! my two are 12 and 9, constantly bickering, provoking & blaming each other for the mess im asking them to tidy.

I get tears and anger (no swearing though) stamping feet, slamming doors, throwing games controllers..... very stressful for all of us.

I do know the ps3 here causes a lot of the rows! Ive threatened many a time that I will throw it out, but cant afford clubs as an alternative thing to do. I will be watching with interest. hope some one can give you more helpful answer.