Am I damaging her?

[bayrans]

Please excuse me, but I'm currently wallowing in self loathing and pity, I need to vent, I'm at the end of my tether.

My daughter is 11 months old, naps and sleeps terribly, so much so that we are seeing a sleep consultant (run by my LA)
We have all been suffering from this for 4 months now - at its worse she was up x15-20 a night. We would have to rock or feed her to sleep.
We had made some improvement, I had stopped breastfeeding to sleep at bedtime and during the night (both took 3/4 days of just my Husband doing the bedtime stuff)

We seem to have taken 2 steps forward and what feels like a million steps back.
She keeps waking at 0400,has done for weeks,
she's either wide awake or inconsolable. We have introduced a complete blackout blind at the suggestion from the sleep consultant but my H is convinced she sleeps better with a light on..... I'm not so. She sleeps like shit anyway!
The rub is one of is in the same room as her - wehave taken to doing "nightshifts" we live in a one bed flat so there is no separate room for her and one of us sleeps on the sofa bed to get some rest.

This morning was a corker, up at 0400, upset if I tried to rock, would only BF (I was too tired to refuse) would settle next to me only to fling herself awake again ad infinitum.
My H took over about 0530 were she apparently fell asleep straight away with one of her soft toys. He was acting rather smug saying it's because I turn the night light off.

Anyway, the title.... I'm so, so frazzled. She can be super in the day, funny, bright, engaging - a delight. We go to the park all the time, soft play, swimming. Everyone says how bright and well behaved she is! At home she turns into cling film.
She will literally chase me around and hang off the back of my legs. I can barely get a drink or go to the toilet sometimes. It's as if she doesn't want me to do anything! If I'm just sat on the floor with her she's off pottering around...
So my tolerance is at zero. I shout at her. I sit her on the floor and shout "what do you want?" And she's cries this awful cry. And it breaks my heart, even though my heart is already breaking because I'm so stressed and miserable. Sometimes I will withhold eye contact, I can't bear to look at her. I'm sure she thinks mumma hates her (not as much as mumma hates herself though).

I have no time to cook/clean - we' re limited what we can do of an evening because of noise.
Because I've no time to cook, I'm relying on pouches/toddler meals for her and that makes me feel bad because I feel like I'm failing her (again)

I just feel like I am damaging her by shouting and getting angry. My general mood is rubbing off onto her. I'm grumpy most of the time. I nag my H, we bicker a lot, something we NEVER used to do.I get angry so very quickly too. I keep trying to tell myself that it won't be like this forever but I can't see through that.

The worse thing is that I had a crappy, unhappy childhood and I wanted hers to be so different from mine.
I'm failing miserably at this, she deserves so much better than me.

Sorry for rambling, it probably doesn't make much sense.

I'm not sure I can say anything useful as I'm a new mum with a 4 month old DS bit didn't want to read and run. You must be exhausted - try not to be too hard on yourself.

With regard to the sleep - I agree with sleep consultant - we have a blackout blind for DS and it definitely helps. I have read quite a few times that a dark room helps prepare the brain for sleep.

Will your DD not sit and play without you being sat with her all the time? What if you sat her down but then kept popping back over to her every few minutes to get her used to the idea that you don't need to sit with her all the time? Sorry you might have already tried this and I have no experience yet so might not be helping you much.

I hope you're ok, it's so hard being a mum sometimes, especially when you're sleep deprived x

Firstly, no, you are not damaging her. Sleep deprivation is actually a recognised method of torture. It affects every possible aspect of your life without being able to see a light at the end of the tunnel.
You've taken the first step to getting things sorted by seeing a sleep consultant, the next step is to follow that advice to the letter, no matter how odd it sounds or how tired you are.
A sleep expert once described to me a scale of sleeping from being wide awake to fast asleep. When they wake up in the middle of the night they go right back to the beginning of this scale and so need to work themselves back down the scale to sleep again. This means that whatever they used at bedtime they'll need again at 4am or whenever they wake.
Once that was explained to me the puzzle pieces started falling into place.
If she needs a bf to go to sleep then she'll need this at 4am too. Likewise with rocking or singing, etc. so the aim is to get her falling to sleep without anything to help her. This sounds tricky but it is possible - after all, she has to fallen asleep at some point!
I'd carry on stopping with the bf before bed. As well as wanting it in the night, it may be uncomfortable for her to go to sleep with a full tummy.
Switch the light off as you've been doing, especially it is a blue light - those lights burn an image onto little one's eyes making it harder for them to fall asleep (try it, it's weird how long the image stays in your mind)
The next thing is to encourage her to go to sleep without you. You'll need to wean her off this, so start by going into her but not picking her up. Just make calming shushing noises. It may take a couple of days of screaming but she will accept it. Just sit by the bed and stroke her hand or hair to remind her that you are there but don't pick her up. When she has accepted that after a couple of days or however long it takes then you need to start moving away from the cot but staying in the room. If she gets upset then quietly reassure her that you are still there. Each day just stay a little less time or start to move towards the door earlier until eventually you'll be able to just go in, tuck her in, reassure her if she's had a bad dream and then leave without fuss. She'll actually start settling herself without you needing to go into her a couple of days after that.
It's a good idea to look at her naps too, maybe she is napping too much or for too long? Trying dropping a nap or if she is only on one then cut down the length of it.
I'm not going to lie, it won't be easy - especially the first couple of days (try to time those so you don't have work the next day) but you will get there and it'll be so worth it.
We were where you were three months ago. I followed the advice above and she picked it up in a week. It was amazing.
Good luck and I hope I've said something that may help. Remember that you are doing a great job, and you haven't failed her at all - you've proven that by asking for help!

I think I might feel the same way you do if I had a baby with sleep issues. I also have had times when I've shouted, even screamed at my kids. It feels horrible. Of course its not ok, but you're not a monster - you're human. Just do the adult thing and work on resolving the issue.

I shouted at my son when he was 4 months in the middle of the night. I put him in another room - in a safe place -and shut the door. I've even worn ear plugs when my 18 mo - we were trying to get her to sleep on her own - would cry. it can be torture and if you start feeling yourself losing it, you need to take a break. it's better to do that than show anger in front of you child.

But don't worry. She will not be irrevocably damaged because you yelled at her once and made her cry. Just wait until you start time-outs. They cry pitifully.

Thank you for taking the time to reply, I'm sitting here in the park crying!

I wish it was just the once that I had shouted at her but it's been a few times today. I've had to take myself into time out and scream into a pillow! It's not everyday, but it's crushing knowing that we were getting somewhere with her sleep for it to all go to pot again, hence why it's a bad day today.

She's not one for pick up/put down, gradual retreat or shushing and patting, it just makes her more furious.

She was such an easy baby, breastfeeding was a cinch from the start, she used to suck her thumb and settle like a dream,no colic or reflux..... This is karma for what?!!

She started with terrible separation anxiety around 7/8 months coinciding with the sleep disruption.

I spend ALL of my time with her, I'm always playing with her, reading to her or singing and dancing yet the moment I need a wee or a drink then it game over! We live in a flat with an open lounge/kitchen so it's not as if she is left alone - she can still see me.

I'm just exhausted, I feel like I can't do this anymore, it's so heartbreaking.

Hi OP, don't despair - you're facing a very difficult time right now and you're doing very well just to get through each day. As 98percentchocolate said, nightly sleep deprivation is a form of torture and no-one can feel well or happy without a decent amount of regular sleep.

I think you've had excellent advice from previous posters about the sleep problem, so I am going to address the issues during the day. (I'm glad you have arrangement with your husband whereby you each get an alternative night's sleep on the sofa bed to get a bit more sleep.) You say your daughter is great when you take her out, which is not surprising because she is being entertained with a different scene and interesting activities. She is also getting a lot of your attention which is very good for her and bonding her to you emotionally. It is when you are at home with her - and needing to give your attention to household tasks - that the problems arise, with clinginess and demands for attention. The trouble is, that at eleven months, your daughter is at prime attachment stage where she wants to be in close proximity to you and also is incapable of amusing herself for long. What she wants is you - your touch, your voice and your attention. That is actually how she learns at this stage - especially speech -and that is why she can't help seeking your attention constantly. You, however, have other tasks and can't constantly give her your full attention at home, especially if you have just spent a lot of time out of the house for her benefit, at soft play etc.

The secret, I think, is to give her the attention before she demands it, and try to end the cycle of her crying for attention and you feeling put-upon and unable to control the situation. If you have cooking or housework you want to get on with (either before going out for the day or before), spend some time first concentrating solely on your baby - ten or fifteen minutes reading books to her, building up towers of bricks for her to knock down etc and talking to her at the same time. She is at the stage where she will be "babbling" back to you or even have a couple of words, so try to get a "conversation" started between you. After this playtime of ten minutes or so, get up, and resolutely get on with whatever you need to do, but keep talking to your daughter in the same, bright, enthusiastic tone of voice. It doesn't matter what you say - it can be a running commentary on what you're doing or complete gibberish! - as long as it is happy, cheerful and sounds like conversation! If you get fed up talking, sing! Nursery rhymes are excellent but anything will do. The point of this is that you stay "in touch" with your baby with your voice while getting on with the cooking/housework. Every twenty minutes or so, sit down again with your daughter on your lap and read her another story or just pick her up, and carry her about for a cuddle. Then get up again and leave her to play while you get on with your work. This way, you accomplish what you want to do while the baby doesn't feel neglected. If she does start to cry eventually, it will probably be due to tiredness or hunger rather than boredom.

The main thing to do is to try to keep the atmosphere pleasant and happy if at all possible - easier said than done, I know, when you're tired. But it is worth trying, even if you have to fake enjoyment at first, because babies are extremely sensitive to their carer's mood and are much less demanding if the ambience is relaxed and cheerful.

Hope things improve for you soon!

What specific plan has the sleep consultant advocated?

Thank you, Better, I do try and do what you have suggested but maybe I could do a bit more time initially - I do like to be organised for my day and time with her is probably minimal first thing on reflection.

We don't have a plan as such, more trying to modify behaviour at sleep times which is in essence working (just).

The withdrawal of BF to sleep was her idea, we had already cracked the night feedings ourselves, and it wasn't so bad (3 nights of disruption, more than normal )
It's still quite early days so she also suggests to do whatever I can to get her to sleep - she does not advocate, nor do I agree with, any form of leaving to cry.

I've only been seeing her for 3 weeks, she's a lovely, calming and clever lady. An RGN/HV plus behavioural specialist and early years coordinator. I happened to bump into her today whilst out, she asked if I was ok and of course I started to cry and she took me for a cup of tea! It was like a session plus I have my booked one for tomorrow. I will continue to see her until issues are resolved. I'm very lucky to have found such a service as it's free.

So far so good tonight....

Sleep deprivation is torture of a kind only known by those mums who have a baby who wakes up significant times a night.

You are doing your best to give your daughter what she needs, which means you are doing a fab job.

Your plans for sleeping on the sofa in turns with DH, and everything else you've put in place sound like sensible plans.
We too had light on / light off phases. DS seemed to settle better sometimes with it on, sometimes with it off. Even now, at 5, he will sometimes pop straight out of bed, and put the night light on maybe once a week.

I'm also convinced that the sleep deprivation contributed to PND. Have you considered that might be making things worse?

I promise, it WILL get better, you will get more sleep, and the horror will fade. (and ?)

Oh, you really have my sympathy. Sleep deprivation is bloody awful and makes everything about a million times harder. My DD is a bit like yours in character I think - poor sleeper (not on your scale though), adores being out but often whingy at home especially if she isn't getting 100% attention. She's much worse when tired so I can imagine your DD must be at that level the whole time. And of course you are tired too so no wonder you lose your rag sometimes.

My advice would be:

• keep with the sleep training. Do what the sleep consultant says - I have no idea why your H thinks he knows better blackout is a recognised sleep aid. Better sleep will make the most enormous difference.

We resorted to CC when DD was doing multiple wakes and had to be rocked back to sleep - in our case it worked so quickly and made such a huge improvement to everyone's sleep and mood and relationships that I think it was justified. I know you're not keen though which is fair enough.

• Try to organise your day so she has your attention as much as possible. Can you dress and get your stuff together for the day before DH leaves (I'm assuming he WOH and you are at home?), so he can play with her while you get ready? Can you batch cook at the weekend while DH looks after her (or vice versa)? it won't be like this forever just while she gets past this stage.

• I agree with Better's suggestion about giving her attention first, before she gets whingy, then wait till she's playing with something before you try to get something done.

• Take her with you from room to room if you need to move rooms.

• if you think you are getting cross - count to 5 and imagine someone is watching you - I realise this sounds awful but I am a better and more patient parent if I imagine someone can see me!

• this too will pass...

Sleep deprivation is the worst thing I've ever had in my life, you have my total sympathy.

Are you doing all of the usual things like going to bed early as much as possible? Its good that DH and you are taking it in turns on the sofa. Do you think he could take her out for a day or even half a day at the weekend so that you can sleep?

How does she sleep if she's in bed with you? Have sympathy too with her wanting to be with you all of the time. If you want to cook, have you tried sticking a stew in while she naps, or giving her some saucepans and a wooden spoon to play with?

If you are with holding eye contact and shouting at her, I'd have a word with the GP too, you might find some ADs or CBT might help

31 ways to get your baby to sleep and 12 alternatives for the all night nurser might help. Have you read the No Cry Sleep Solution. I found that really helpful

Have a read of hidden causes of night waking. For my DS the hidden reason was tongue tie so it might be worth ruling that out as well.

My dd1 woke every 1-2 hours for the first 18 months of her life, then every 2-3 hours until she was nearly 3.

It is a killer, you have my sympathies.

I also remember the awful clunginess. What worked for me was to use a sling I could back carry in (woven non stretchy wrap, or mei tai worked for me) and just sling her on my back. As long as I kept moving she was fine and happy. Used to go fir walks like that every afternoon for a bit if headspace and she would nap in the sling much better than anywhere else.

She is now 3 and sleeps through :)

Thank you everyone again for replying, you have made me feel much better, and today is a new day!

With regards to possible PND, i've considered it but I think ultimately we're the victims of circumstance. Our living arrangements are not ideal. We were never supposed to be here in the flat for this long - we are in the process of moving but its taken forever (and lost our dream house in the process). The stress involving the move is ridiculous!

And because we live in a 1 bed flat, that makes other things difficult when she does sleep - like cooking/cleaning as i dont want to make a noise and wake her. its such a vicious circle.

I sling her regularly, always have to make her feel close to me but i have a shoulder problem too at the moment which makes that painful.

I do like the idea that if i am getting angry i should pretend someone is watching..... It shouldn't have had to come to that but if thats what it takes then i'll try.

Thanks again for making me less of a monster, i do appreciate it.

*feel less of a monster

Would it be an option to bring your dd to a nursery/childminder for a few hours a week, just to give yourself a break?

Sleep deprivation is horrific. Its difficult minding a baby who needs constant attention. You are not a monster. Hopefully the sleep will improve soon and you will be better able to deal with daytime challenges.

Have you tried white noise? DD still sleeps with it at 2. I was in a one bed too and that was the only way I could get stuff done in the kitchen while she was asleep without waking her. Still had to be quiet but it was possible. DDs clinginess was always much worse when shes teething. Could it be that? Out and about shed be more distracted from any discomfort but at home there was less to distract her. I second the childcare suggestion. Shell take time to get familiar with another carer but anyone would go crazy getting no breaks from this kind of demanding phase.

With the sleep, if the sleep consultants more gradual methods havent reduced the wakings to something you can live with after giving it a fair shot you could rethink controlled crying. I didnt agree with it either but we tried everything else with DD and had her down to 2 wakings a night at 17 months. Couldnt get past that and the cumulative sleep deprivation at that point was insane. CCing was nowhere near as traumatic as I thought it would be and worked within a few days. I understand if you think it might damage her but I do think its ok to weigh that up against the damage that being exhausted and irritable over a long period of time could do to you as well as the effect that it could have on her.

Your DH sounds smug and arrogant. He knows better than the sleep consultant and better than you. Its stressful living with a know it all. Do you think it might be really him that youre angry at but because youre too exhausted to be able to resolve that right now its coming out at your DD? Just knowing that that could be whats happening might help you catch yourself when youre doing it and not beat yourself up so much about it either. The nagging and bickering is anger coming out in unproductive ways. You probably nag because he ignores you and he ignores you because he knows better than you.

You apologized for rambling even though you didnt ramble at all and made perfect sense. Im guessing you apologise for yourself a lot. You say you hate yourself, I think thats kind of the root of your problem to be honest. The sleep deprivation and constant demands would make anyone feel crap and maybe hate their situation but to hate yourself is something different. Youre beating yourself up about anything and everything, right down to those food pouches, because youre turning your anger in on yourself. People with crappy childhoods often do that especially when youre under huge stress like you are right now. Having a baby can bring up feelings like powerlessness, hopelessness, being criticized , rejected, controlled that are really coming from your own childhood. Digging down into that in therapy could really help you give DD a different childhood. Your DD doesnt deserve someone better than you. She deserves a happy mum who knows shes good enough and you can get to that. Youre not failing, youre doing the best you can.

Weird question marks sorry!

My daughter was a high needs baby/toddler who was very clingy and a terrible sleeper who stopped napping before she started sleeping through the night, and I had severe PND. Previous posters have all said sensible things. But to help you feel better about yourself; I used to scream swear at my daughter quite regularly, but it didn't seem to have any long term effect on either our relationship or her self esteem. Obviously you want to avoid it as much as you can, but it doesn't automatically mean that you're ruining her whole life. My daughter is now an amazing, self-confident eighteen-year-old, we get along very well, and she doesn't remember any of it.
And she's making up for all that lack of sleep now - I had to turf her out of bed at gone 2 the other afternoon.