How can I help my kids to not be like me?

[Whyamisocrap]

Hello wise MN'ers.

I need some advice please. I'm feeling a bit sad and overwhelmed by this but don't know how to deal with it.

I have, pretty much my whole life, been ignored/invisible, and I am worried now that my kids are being affected in the same way.

I have always been the owe to make an effort, and then find myself being the one left out, so if I'm talking to someone and another person comes along, instead of the conversation being a three way thing it usually turns into a two way thing with me on the periphery. That in a nutshell sums things up. This has really affected my confidence and although I still try and make an effort with people, this keeps happening and I really don't want the same thing for my children.

My DD who is 6, is often excluded from games at play times at school. She will ask if she can join in, but the 'leader' of the game often says NO. Recently the school had a competition and she wanted to join a group, and again was told no, so she gave up. I try and encourage her to join another group, but she has been told No so often that I think she is now at the stage where she says she' drat her play by herself. She does have some friends that she really likes but the same happens with her and if anyone else joins the group, they go off and she gets left behind.

I have spoken to her teacher about this and she says that my Dd is very friendly and polite and not bossy or overbearing, so she doesn't understand why this might be. She has tried to help my Dd by talking to her about it, but my Dd doesn't want to 'tell on anyone' which is what she thinks she would be doing by talking about what happens. My DD is at a girls school.

My DS is still at nursery, and seems to be happy and has lots of lovely friends. He has also made a friend at my DDs school with a boy who is there at pick up time. He has played nicely with him, and I have never noticed that the other boy doesn't like my DS. Today though, this boy was there with one of his friends. My DS went to play with home, after asking me if he could go and play with his friend. But the boy was just rude to my DS. Whenever my DS tried to talk to him, he just covered his ears and told him to go away. My DS is only 4 so he kept running back to me a bit confused, but then would go back. I watched and this happened about 4 times. In the end I told DS not to go back as the boy was being a bit rude and that he didn't want to play with DS. DS was a bit upset by this as he is used to playing with this boy, most days. Again, my DS isn't bossy or rude or overbearing.

Anyway, I am really struggling with this as I don't know how best to help my Dc. I don't know whey this sort of thing happens with such young children, but I know it does.

How can I help my Dc deal with these sorts of things, so that they don't grow up feeling like I do. That I am somehow unlikeable and only useful as a last resort. This is really how I feel. People will talk to me , but only if there are no other options. I know this is life and you have to just ignore it and get on with it, but I am so upset and feel like a crap mum who can't help her kids. I really want them to be able to just be more confident and self assured than I am, as it's not much fun living your life wondering why you're not good enough.

I went to bed about 3 hours ago and couldn't sleep, so decided I'd come here for help.

Thankyou for reading this apologies for the rambling nature of this. I can't quite form sentences as I am genuinely upset about this.

unrealhousewife it's good to read a positive story about Facebook use!

In my own lemon moment yesterday I understood the hijack (crying toddler, chance meeting prior to a trip out) but I still felt rather snubbed. I did wish the lemonizer good weather for their planned outing and she looked slightly surprised (in a good way I think!) and I suppose it was a way of saying that I am still here and won't become invisible. It was also part of moving away from the two of them. Which can be the trickiest bit as you realise the conversation is set on its new course for a while!

yes, in life, in general, TELL people, don't ASK them.

When I was a young NQT, I had to teach Y11, a nice boy in the front said the me after the first lesson:" Miss, you have to TELL them, not ASK them"

he was worried for me, bless.

Good advice it was too!

Unreal housewife, I just wanted to say it sounds like you've done a great job with you 16 year old. I hope my DC develop their own sense of self in the same way,

It has got me thinking though, how do you praise your kids enough without making them believe their own hype? Does that make sense?
I'm 45 and there have always been people I've met whether at work, socially or wherever, who really have believed they were the bees knees, even though they were clearly not.

My DC are not allowed to get away with being rude to each other or not say please or thankyou etc. I do praise them, but not for everyday things. I do often say thankyou for helping me not being late for school. I do praise them for things that are maybe out of the ordinary, but not for good behaviour as that is expected. Does that make sense?

How do you praise your kids enough to help them with their sense of self, but without them becoming too self centred?

I do tend to overthink things but this is one of those things that worries me. How can I help my DC be confident and assertive without being arrogant?
Xxx

I found Martin Seligman's work on learned optimism useful. He criticises the self-esteem movement as "boosterism" and focuses on achieving self esteem through achievement rather than empty praise.

Brave, I hope that young man went into great things. He sounds like he was a lovely boy.

Funny ossity, well done for saying that. I'm often a deer in headlights and can't say anything or don't think of anything to say at the time.

I have another awkward thing today. I offered to help one of the mums with her dc today as she has yo be somewhere and wasn't sure she'd be back in time to pick up. She initially said yes but that she'd try and get back in time, but if not yes please, a few days later I had a text to say that she would be back and didn't need help, and that she also had a play date later that day and that her dc would be overtired if he came to ours after nursery. Yesterday, I was invited for a coffee to another mums house and she mentioned that this other mum would be there too and it would be fine for me to bring my DS. So basically again I was a good option until a better offer came along. The play date that the first mum mentioned was much later in the day after our DD's finish school.

Anyway, the first mum doesn't know I've been invited along by the other mum, and although I want yo go, I feel awkward that I,ll make per feel uncomfortable as she'll know that I know she got a better offer. So, should I go or not? By the way the mum who invited me along was the mum from a few days ago, who lemonised me.

I hope that makes sense. Xxx

Funny ossity, that sounds like what I was trying to say. I'll take a look at that too. When you say work, is it a journal, report or book? I assume I'll find it if I google him. Thanks so much.

I bought a (dull but useful!) book years "The Optimistic Child" and he now has youtube videos!

That should have read "years ago" of course!

I think you could look at her behaviour more neutrally. Perhaps she feels all will be calmer after some down time at home.

What I wouldn't do is worry about making her feel uncomfortable- too much mind-reading contortions going on!

Alsol I'd be very wary of offering her more help than I wanted to give re pick-ups etc. So do it if it suits you to have a playmate round but don't do it to be well-thought of or to "earn" a friendship.

GOod point. I offered as that's the way my head works. It didn't even think of it as a thing to do to earn brownie points.

Basically we pickup our DS's at 1 and the afternoon thing is at 130 and her evening play date is at 330, so maybe I am overthinking it, but there won't be any down time for them at home. Also her text was so apologetic, that if remember thinking it was odd. To me that now makes sense. Her DS and mine get along really well, which was why I offered.

Xxx

Hi OP

I was very much like you as a child, always on the periphery and feeling left out of things. I was 'A Shy Child', and often got overlooked. I was never bullied and always had friends - but I was never what you might describe as 'popular' - I was probably seen as more of a 'hanger on'.

If you didn't know me then, but do now you'd probably never believe this in a million years. Nowadays I'm usually the 'life and soul' and people would never, ever describe me a shy. I still am really, I think.

It is 10000% all about confidence. Everything changed for me when I was 16 years old and I got a Saturday job in a shop. Perhaps it was talking to people all day, the added responsibility, the extra money (!) but it honestly changed my life.

Your DC are only small still, so all I can do is echo what other, wiser posters have said about helping them now. But I wanted you to know that things can change.

WRT the 3rd person thing - this is my absolute pet hate! I have been known to be quite rude who do this to me, either by talking over me or standing with their back to me. It is quite something that I literally cannot tolerate.

Well - she sounds like she has a whirlwind round of engagements. It would wear me out. (shrugs shoulders)

I know from experience that it's easier said than done to be relaxed about things if you are used to blaming yourself for stuff that happens but she's just another overstretched person. Not worth fretting over honestly! And no it doesn't sound as if you are destined to be deep soul friends [grins] but so much friendship at this stage of children's lives is about a wider and quite shallow social scene. In it's own way it's quite a good place to practice social skills whilst providing nice opportunities for your kids.

Notaflamingclue, sounds like you had an epiphany, if that's the right word.

I'm actually wondering about returning to work myself once my DS starts school in September. I haven't worked since before my Dd was born, so I think the not earning and having my own 'thing' to do might be making things worse for me. But I'd like to work part time and term time so I can still be here for my Dc, but I imagine there a queue a few miles long of people looking for similar work.

Thanks for sharing your experience though.

Funny ossity, it is like that isn't it? The shallow social scene. I'm not very good at playing games though but maybe I just have to do that. I sometimes wonder if the mum cliques filter down to the friendship cliques that the children form at school. Maybe I should do more to give my dc more opportunities, like you say.

Thanks again. Xxx

Ha! Just got dd an interview for a job in a Cafe

Funny ossity, thankyou by the way. It's good to get so many different perspectives on things.

Just another view on the offer to pick up situation.

The way I see it is that I would be really grateful to someone offering to pick up my child, but i would see it as imposing on them so I would do my absolute best to make arrangements so i could pick up myself instead. I wouldn't have viewed it as cancelling you was a bad thing and a snub, I would view that as being grateful for the offer but that I had managed to relieve you of having to do it.

just maybe she was being the same and thought you'd be glad you didn't have to do it?

Unreal housewife, well done! Fingers crossed your dd gets it.

Soontobeslendergirl, I'm sure that's exactly what she thought. It was just she said it would be too much for her son to come to ours and then have a play date at 330, but managed to fit in another play date anyway. All the replies on here are really helpful. I am sometimes prone to overthink things and then manage to make things about me and it's not always the case.

Like I said at the start, I really hope I can help my dc be different to me in how they deal with things, so thankyou for taking the time to reply.

Xxx

The different perspective is what Seligman encourages; I had to learn to dispute my own pessimistic explanations of events.

So you practise seeing a setback as temporary and probably due to outside influences.

Yes absolutely you are giving them the power by asking. That hits the nail on the head beautifully! You have learned to be assertive at work. Assertive is also useful socially. I know exactly how you feel by the way. You are so not alone ( or a lemon!)

Oops 'replied' to the last post on page 1 instead of reading on. Interesting stuff on here. I hope it is making you feel better OP.

Funny ossity, I downloaded the seligman book and will read it over the weekend. Thankyou.

Letsgoforawalk, I am feeling much better and a lot less alone, for both myself and my Dc's. :)

Funny ossity, did you find it easy to remember to challenge yourself like that and has it now become second nature, or, do you have to make a conscious effort to do this?

I believe that there are certain personalities that attract people to them, those who are the most fun, or interesting, or just charismatic. Then the are people who are peripheral a lot of the time. We can't all be the charismatic ones and I'm not sure it's healthiest to be either. I was never the central child but often the one who got pushed out when the was a 3. I dealt with it at secondary school by making close and fierce friendships with one girl at a time, and no trying to be in a group. This wasn't the best either!
I think my DS has the centre of attention gene from his father. I'm not sure what it is that makes other kids gravitate round him but I'm not sure I like it. Of course I want him to be popular but not a ringleader, I worry that ringleader boys can go off the rails during teens. I'd rather one who was a bit less social and a bit more studious!
The point of that rambling waffle was that the world, and the playground, is made of all kinds of personalities and there is room for everyone. Perhaps encourage any special friendships they have? Oh, and the little boy in the playground was just showing off in front of his other friend, I really doubt that was personal to your DS.

It becomes a habit eventually.

I do note a stab of bad feeling though if I think my kids are being left out but I can recognise it as my problem and not truly related to what's going on. The kids have taught me that too - they are usually perfectly able to cope!

Also in cases of "lemonism" I practised extricating myself rather than feeling more and more uncomfortable and of course it's a virtuous circle as it's nicer to take your leave in a (pretend!) confident way than stand around feeling awkward. These days too you can edge back and fiddle with a mobile phone if it's a two minutes until pick up type of scenario.

Eric I know a boy like yours, a natural leader but he was uncomfortable with it. He was just fun and funny and had no inhibition.

You do sound so much like me, Whyamisocrap, when I am feeling low. We take things personally that at a happier time in our lives we would just shrug off.

I used to wonder why everyone else had birthday celebrations and I didn't. But then a friend pointed out to me, if I wanted to celebrate your birthday I had to arrange it myself, as everyone else did, duh.