Explaining death without resorting to heaven....

[Thenightwillalwayswin]

While DS2 is still very young (3 months) I'm wondering how we can explain death to him as he gets older. DS1 died at 4 days old, and we want to ensure he is always part of the family. I don't want to sit down DS2 and have a 'big reveal' so DS1 will always be talked about. BUT what I'm unsure about is how to describe what's happened to DS1 without scaring the crap out of him. Obviously saying DS1 went to sleep might scare him and, DH and I are athethists, so heaven isn't an option. How do you describe death to small children without scaring them? Is it possible? Obviously wish we didn't have to even think about this, but we do and I want to get it as right as possible.

I'm so sorry about your loss. x

What do you say to comfort yourselves about what death means? I think that's the starting place. And being truthful about how your first son died but in an age appropriate way. Yes find a way to reassure him that it won't happen to him, too.

Hi thenightwillalwayswin. Sorry for your loss. We have DTs who are 4; their maternal grandfather died before they were born, but we still talk about him, so we have had to tackle death too. We are also athiests.

We have used the 'recycling' approach (bear with me!). The boys know that we are all made up of tiny, tiny bits that used to be stars in the universe. All the tiny bits have come together to make them - before they made them they were pieces of other plants and animals, rocks and water. When someone dies, the important parts (how much people loved them, the kind things that they did) carry on in the memories of those who are left - all the tiny pieces that made up their bodies break down again and go onto different things - flowers, trees, butterflies etc.

We didn't sit the boys down and go through this all at once, it sort of came out gradually over time. A really nice part of it is that when we go to the place where we scattered my dad's ashes, the boys might ask 'so that butterfly might have some of the tiny pieces that were once in Grandpa' and they seem to find it comforting.

Hope that is of some help - it has so far worked well for us.

we use the universe too. we explained to dd1 when nana and grandad passed that we all came from the stars and that we return there when we pass and that our soul continues on the journey just without our body x

We do as Lairy has. DS lost his grandmother and our cat when he was 3. We said that death mean they have have gone away and can't come back, but that they've become part of the rest of the world, flowers, trees even animals. And we remember them and the fun things we did which keeps them with us in our hearts.

DS often pipes up with something like "I think grandma would like to be a tree now", smiles and is quite happy.

We have an issue with the when are you going to die bit. I said that most people don't die til they're very old. How do you tell if they're old mummy? Well, people get grey hair when they get older... Cue lots of random - that man has grey hair, he's going to die soon! to random strangers

And he then found one of my grey hairs and panicked. That was tricky to explain, so I would recommend a different approach!

Some of these explanations are lovely. I was just talking about this with DP the other day as we are also atheists but obviously don't want to scare DC with thoughts of going to sleep and not waking up! But I love the idea of saying that when we die our thoughts and feelings live on in the people who know us, but our body gets recycled into the rest of the world.

They are we had exactly the same!! We had a few awkward visits with the grandparents when the boys kept asking them when they would die because their hair was grey.
We also have the book 'Lifetimes'. It is great because it talks about everything having it's own lifetime, but that sometimes the lifetime is cut short because of accident or illness. We try to be straight with the boys within what they can cope with e.g. when they ask when me or DH might die, we say "probably not for a long time". They understand that some people, animals and plants do not live as long as others because of accidents and illness.

I talk about the circle of life. Burying people or ashes that turn into new nature. And we talk about memories living on.

We've also talked about 'some people believe...' and discussed the idea of heaven and reincarnation because no one really knows what happens after you die.

My 4 year old has decided he likes reincarnation best and he'll be coming back as a minion. His great grandma is now a giraffe he says.

We use the universe as well. We say that the atoms that make us go out into the universe and become other beings, planets and stars. DS is very interested in space and the universe so it is interesting for him and easy to understand.

I'm an atheist and I think the science is as beautiful as the idea of heaven. In bereavement I think this would be a great comfort to me: You want a physicist to speak at your funeral

We went for the "recycling, we are made of stars", etc approach too, and the planting of tree or shubs to remember loved ones.

Thank you for all your responses. Lairy - love the recycling idea. Iljkk - for us it's all just part of the randomness of the universe which might be a bit abstract. But that DS1 lives on in us. Definitely given me some food for thought and good ideas for us to help us talk to DS2 about DS1.

www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/1849395144/ref=mw_dp_mdsc?dsc=1
This is a beautiful children's story.

When DD1 was stillborn my little sister (aged 4) wanted to know where my baby had gone. Dad told her she'd gone to be a star.

DD2 is now 2.3 and although there are pictures of DD1 in the house, plus her memory box, we don't go to the cemetery v often anymore and I think she's forgotten. I used to tell her about her big sister but I gradually lost the habit and now it feels like I don't know where to begin. DC3 is due in 4 weeks and I want DD2 to know she has a big sister as well as a baby brother, but I don't know how to go about it.

TooExtra, I'm really sorry about your daughter. I suppose this is why I'm thinking about it so early, I think a 'reveal' is harder than it just always being part of the conversation. Sorry, I don't have any advice.

Ds went through a death obsessed stage at 3 which was tricky!

I told him that the body stops working and the person can't be with us anymore. That they live on in the hearts and memories of those who loved them. Then I would tell him a story about one of my dead relatives and explain that was the relative living in the story.

We also talked about how old the stars are and how the people you love will have looked at the same stars so if you miss someone it is nice to look at the stars and imagine them looking up at them too.

I did the recycling/living on as a memory thing as well, but not nearly as well as Lairy. It was much more about being eaten by worms when I did it . I might give it another go using the stars rather than worms!

Sorry to hear of your loss op, and all who have lost loved ones who have posted.

My brother died before dd1 was born and I bring him up sometimes especially discussing childhood. Dd1 seems surprised each time I mention him as if this is new information. It feels a bit like a reveal each time!

My dad died before I was born and I never remember not knowing iyswim? My mum must have talked about him and I just took it in over time. I imagine the dds will not remember being told about my brother. I'm a slight coward for not having discussed my 'real' dad with the dds. I have a stepdad who is grandad to them and I can't find the words to explain the situation.

I think that a good explanation for death is that although people die and we can never see them again, we hold memories of people in our hearts and we never forget them.

Lairy you do know what you are telling the boys is nonsense don't you? I assume you will explain the truth when your boys are older.

What is the nonsense about what Lairy is saying, given that particle physics is probably a bit complex for her kids at the moment?

What nonsense? There are enough atoms in the universe that we are all made up of atoms that were once part of a star, and of William Shakespeare, and of a dinosaur. Explaining that our body breaks apart and becomes part of the world around is the actual scientific explanation for death.

Oh, it's alright, I know what you mean, soontobesix. However I think you'll find this was a thread for how people who are not religious to explain death to their DC...

too, I know we lost DD1 at a much earlier stage than you but she's always been part of our conversation with DS1. Your DD2 might be a bit young but my DS1 finds it fascinating that he, DD1 and DD2, along with DC4 at the moment, have all been 'in my tummy'. He tells me they all used to hold hands together. Would it work casually mentioning 'all the babies that have been in your tummy'? I think she is so young that you could start chatting about DD1 again and avoid any big reveal.

We use stars, too.

Am a bit at Soontobesix's response, I thought Lairy's explanation was beautiful, I will be using that one too, thank you
We also have the Lifetimes book, which is beautiful (I do have to stop myself welling up when I read it though ), and we have one out of the library at the moment called Always and Forever by Alan Durant which is good.
I'm sorry for your loss, OP, I think the toughest thing for you will be the age at which your DS1 died, as I am afraid I rely heavily on the 'most people are very old when they die' line through fear that I am going to scare my DC, which is not so much of an option for you

I am interested in hearing what truth soontobesix is referring too, though...

Thanks again, for all the helpful responses (although I'm confused with Soontobesix's, as I don't know what's wrong with Lairy's explanation, I think it's beautiful). Yes, the age is part of the problem, can't say 'He lived a full life...' But it's definitely given me the confidence that we can talk to him in an age appropriate way, so that DS1 is part of the conversation).