Is it normal for nurseries to refuse food like this?

[Ilikethemoon]

My 14 month is about to start nursery settling in. I have just read the policies they send through and they say, in accordance with Scottish executive guidelines (even though it has been the Scottish government for years....) if a child does not eat their main they are not given pudding but only fruit for the rest of the day.
My ds has only just started, in the last week, reliably eating decent portions three times a day. We have been weaning on paediatric advice since 4 months and it has been 10 months of hell trying to feed him by keeping him distracted and entertained for the entire bloody meal. He has only just started to eat for the sake if it, and then rarely for the whole meal. He is also tiny. He started off a good size, but dropped and dropped down the growth charts finally, after many months, levelling out at the 9th percentile. He is skinny and wears 6 to 9/12 month clothes but they are a bit too big for him. He can still get into some 3 to 6 months clothes.
So basically I think it is really important that he keeps the habit of eAting regularly and I want him to eat as calorific and fatty food as possible, especially as he is dairy allergic and it is hard enough to get fat into him as it is. I think just giving him fruit would be really undermining of what we have and are trying to achieve. This policy is obviously aimed at reducing childhood obesity which my ds is not at risk of. Wwyd? I want to challenge the policy but don't want to get off on a bad footing with the nursery.

Firstly, they are lying about the guidelines. Go in with that.

www.scotland.gov.uk/Resource/Doc/89729/0021563.pdf

Sounds very outdated to me. Children should be encouraged to eat as much as they need then stop, not finish their plates. There is bound to be some information on this on the Internet if you need something to back up your challenge. Isn't baby led weaning based on this?

my sons nursery did do that .I doubt they would change because other children would then just refuse .can he maybe not get high calorie drinks from the doctor .

So if they don't eat their main (and thereby earn their pudding) they are penalised by having to eat only fruit?

That's completely arse upwards if the aim is to tackle obesity !

But do they actually say 'eat ALL of their main' or just 'eat their main'? They may be talking about children who refuse to eat any savoury food just to get onto the sugary stuff. It's normal for schools etc to expect children to have a good try at eating the main because that is where the main nutrients are before letting them gorge on the chocolate pudding! I wouldn't expect any institution to insist on finishing their plate.

How ridiculous? Some children don't like x y and z why not offer them a sandwich later in the day? If I were you I'd ask to be informed every time ds eats less than half his meal and if it happens a lot for the meal to be deducted from your cost and to be able to send in a meal that you know he eats to ensure he is eating enough.

Alternatively he may eat more food than you expect a nursery, it's a different environment and most kids will do what all the other kids do :)

It says eat the main.
I don't want a high cal drink from the dr. As it has taken us ten tough bloody months to get him from milk to solids. The other day For the first time ever, he refused milk insisting on solids instead. No way I want to undermine that.
Thanks for the link trolls worth, I will look at that.
My priority really is to keep him eating. Given how small and thin he is I would be delighted if he scoffed a doughnut tbh.

Its all wrong. Making the main course (which is almost always healthier than the pudding in nurseries) the 'bad guy' and making puddings the treat is wrong. Sends the wrong messages to kids. Making children finish off a meal they do not want because they are full up of it, overrides their ability to control their appetite in the long term, in my view. And only giving them fruit (sugar) instead - eh? Makes no sense!
This sort of outdated policy is what has caused obesity in the first place!
Can you get some guidelines from your paedetrician to show them?

I've read the guidance and cannot find that policy in there
I did find this
"For young children, there are no hard and fast rules about what must be served as a breakfast, a
snack, a light meal or a main meal. Depending on likes and dislikes, their appetite and their
willingness to try foods, food items can be interchanged for snacks, meals or breakfast. "
and this
"What will you do if a child does not eat?
If a child does not like the food ..Children who do not eat the food will be offered
an acceptable alternative, e.g. plain crackers,
cheese, fruit, milk-based desserts.
If it is a continuing problem ..Regular informal contact with parents will let
them know how their child has been eating and
make them aware of any difficulties."
Challenge their policy

Our DSs are the same age. Ds eats well but has fussy periods when teething or upset. He regularly eats 1/2 of his main and they get fruit and custard for pudding regardless. There's basically no sugar in their custard so I'm happy with this.

A few times he's completely rejected his lunch, and they've always given him something they know he's likes - made him weetabix, mashed a rusk up or let him go for it with a whole banana.

You need to talk to your nursery about their outdated policy. It's not helping. Otherwise find a better nursery.

Thanks everyone! Plonks, the problem is it is a seller's market here. Nurseries have year long waiting lists, so changing at this point is not an option. We really liked the nursery when we visited so I am a bit peeved about this. I guess I haven't spoken to them yet and they may be fine when I explain. We have our first settling in tomorrow so will chat with them then.

maybe you have just mis-interpreted what was said
if they said "when they don't eat their main we just give them fruit" they possibly meant just for that meal, and not for the whole day
that would be following the guidance
not feeding a starving child who hadn't eaten would be child abuse

My experience-although done years ago but certainly at a time those guidelines would have been in date- was that if they didnt eat main they were offered sandwich or toast instead.

Meant some- not done

Yes hopefully it's a case of crossed lines. I see that it's best practice to deny dinner if a child refuses lunch. My ds would throw a fit if he could see the other kids at nursery getting dinner while he only got a pear. Apparently it was bad enough for them when he was on antibiotics and his meal times were staggered so different to the other kids'.

Absolutely challenge them on it, they should be more than happy to explain. Also, all the kids at ds's nursery have an exercise book where all food eaten, nappies and sleep times are recorded. We bring this book home every night and sometimes write notes in it ourselves for the staff if he's been difficult, not eaten etc and we think they need to know. Does your nursery make a point of doing the same? In your case I'd insist on it, they need to dance to your tune on this one.

Guidelines are just that - guidelines. Nothing is written in stone and should be adapted for each and every child.

I can't see

Insancerre, I'm not really happy with just fruit instead of a meal. Think he needs to be offered a more substantial substitute. Plonky I am not sure about the exercise book. Will find out tomorrow. Thanks again!

I am a nursery cook- in ours (granted, not in Scotland) we offer sandwiches/toast/soft cheese and crackers instead of lunch if the children really don't like the main course provided. I always put salad vegetables on the side- cucumber sticks, cherry tomatoes, carrot batons for the children to pick at. We definitely don't make a big deal of main course refusers and always offer more than just fruit. I'd ask the nursery if this can be done for your son. Ps pudding is as healthy as I can make it and sandwich eaters always get this too.

Thanks silent bob. Thanks everyone for your replies. I feel much better informed for the discussion with the nursery tomorrow. Thanks again.

"Food should not be used as a punishment or a reward." - Ofsted.

Children get 'punished' by having to eat fruit?

The child isn't given any form of carbohydrate for the rest of the day?

Hopefully there is a misunderstanding. If not, the nursery is shit and needs to be avoided until they learn to look after children properly or they shut down.

IMHO if a child would normally eat that meal, and have done so in the past, to refuse it is being fussy. Therefore, you can argue that they are not hungry and do not need pudding. I would only do this if a) they had eaten less than 2/3 of it or b) had eaten all the meat and potatoes and left the veg (which is what our son does).

What happens next depends on the server. Does the child a) get the refused meal back next mealtime or b) carry on as if nothing had happened?

We went with main meals and puddings / snacks are separate entities. One impacting the next.

Therefore the nursery should be saying if you don't eat MOST of your main meal (and a bit of everything on your plate) then no pudding ASSUMING there is not something they genuinely hate on the plate. Then, snack should be fruit or veg (as it probably should anyway, although oat bars are great energy sources). Tea therefore should either be as normal.