4 year old had me in tears, feeling useless, need a rant!

[houmousandcarrotsandwich]

I don't think I'm really asking anything mumsnetters, I just need to rant as I have no adults around until 6pm.

Ds is being hideous. We were suppost to be going to a country show today (which he would have loved), but after throwing things, hitting his little sister, refusing to get dressed, I gave a final warning if he didn't do as I asked we wouldn't be going. He then hurled abuse at me and bit me, so no show (because I have to see my threat through right?)

We came back from family holiday this week, he was awful on holiday. So disrespectful and rude.

He normally eats really well, but just sits at the dinner table trying to start a fight.

he has started spitting.

Hes a good boy at preschool and is happy talking about going to school in September, no evidence of that causing anxiety.

he sleeps well although is going through a stage of early rising (530).

I Just don't know what to do. .. I hate myself for saying this, but I feel like I dont want to share the same room as him.
I've just put him in front of the t v so I can have a cry in the kitchen away from him and run to mn!

I kbew parenting wouldn't be easy, but I didn't think it would be this hard

bless you - it sounds really difficult. I think you are coping really well. Nothing wrong with a good cry in the kitchen, always better coupled with though. Its good to give yourself some space, and him. He is trying it on with you because he is testing bounderies and feels safe to do that with you - so its weird but to me, it seems like you are doing things right! doesn't make it easier though does it?

Yep - i reckon you have to follow through with your threat, which is a shame as you will miss out too. I would just carry on as normal now - then maybe if he starts to behave well you could go later? is the show on tomorrow?

Thanks LEM.
I just wish we could have a good day for a change! Show is only today, but there is a bigger and better one (and dh will be available too) in half term. So not the end of the world.

I'm thinking I'm going to do a big lunch then head out to the park this afternoon (and look forward to bed time!)

Have some

Haven't really got any helpful advice, but I have sat down with my 3 yr old & explained exactly why a treat has been removed. ie I don't like it when you xxxx but if I give you a biscuit now then you'll do xxxx more often, and I don't want that. Weirdly it seemed to halt the tantrum on occasion as she could follow the logic.

Could you perhaps talk calmly to DS and see if he can suggest a way of earning back the trip out, maybe tidying his room & helping his sister tidy her toys (as he had been hitting her). I think it would do you good to get out somewhere nice too!

Longer term you probably need to get some idea why he's behaving so badly & get strategies in place rather than firefighting on a daily basis. I'm sure there must be some good parenting books out there that other MNetters can recommend.

Jus

Oh, mine was like this at four as well. It's horrible. Know that it's nothing you've done wrong, is a phase, it will pass, you will get your lovely, sweet, funny, interesting little boy back again.

I found it helped, although it's not my usual favoured method, to have a set "sanction" that I can impose without having to engage into a huge battle. So for any spitting, rudeness, attitude, hitting, etc, one warning and then he loses something (in our case 15 mins screen time - other ideas, remove one toy from bedroom for 24 hours, give 20p pocket money a day and have him pay a "fine" of 5p, losing 5 minutes from another activity, losing "points" or stars out of an amount e.g. 5, 10, which determines some kind of reward at the end of the day if he can keep them.)

I know it sounds negative but I found positive reinforcement wasn't enough, it needs a penalty for the most annoying/goady behaviours. Nothing too drastic, in fact I found that it seems to work best when it's something very minor because it just gives them a signal "That's not okay and I don't want to hear it" without inviting a huge fight back and battle or feelings of resentment etc on their part obscuring the message of what you're trying to say.

Had a lot of success with separation - in room etc - when he's on the wind up as well.

And obviously alongside do all of your usual praise, encouragement, redirection, talking, positive attention when he's being nice etc.

Good luck!

Just tried talking to him, he just blanked me. Then hurled abuse at me and told me he didn't want to talk to me ever again.

I told him the plan for the afternoon and walked away from the verbal assult (whilst counting to 10)...

Yes Bertie already confiscate thrown toys and item for every time he spits. He just doesn't seem to care!

I do room seperation but today he climbed the stair gate on his door (twice), so looks like thats not working either.

I have been down the behaviour referral route before and was made to feel like I was wasting everyones time. This is normal behaviour. ...apparently

IME it doesn't matter if they seem to care about it at the time, but if it's not helping to stop the behaviour try switching to something else. We went through time out, shouting and screaming then removing toys before hitting on the screen ban which works.

Firefighting is necessary at this age in my experience and then they calm down again at about five and suddenly you find a chunk of reasonableness and almost die of shock.

Only way I found to get DS to stay in his room was to threaten something really dire - he has sweets which he's allowed to buy with his money if he's good and it's the only time that is ever in jeopardy, the rule is if you come out of your room the sweets go in the bin :( - I don't think removing rewards is a good idea but it works as a threat to get him to stay in his room when he's totally hysterical. I think I've had to follow through twice.

Cancelling something like a trip although I can see why you did it (have totally been there too!) is a double edged sword because it's too abstract, he probably didn't really have a concept of what the trip was going to be and they also get really funny and stupid about leaving the house although they get stir crazy if you let them stay in

Return to two year old behaviour management, with lots of explanations in advance of expectations, reminders, ignore as much as possible but draw a line. Then have a set calm firm formula to respond with when he plays up or you'll end up getting angry/stressed. That's confusing but also fun for him because he's gaining power over you by doing so. You need to take the power back and say, no, I won't let you do that. Calm, firm, fair, don't be swayed by angry retorts that "You're hurting meeeeee!" or "You're not allowed to be my mummy any more!" If you react unpredictably then he'll kick back against it.

Also vvv important to keep the "coming out of room threat" as something very bad and not ever threaten it for anything else or it will lose its potency. Losing a beloved console/all lego/train set etc for a week or some such long time in the eyes of a four year old.

DS went through an awful phase last springtime for around 3 months, he was 4.5. I cried, in front of him on one occasion. I lost my rag and shouted and was generally shit and horrible and he was horrible back. Ugh it was a bad time. He passed through it! Your son will too. Don't blame yourself, try to rise above and not lose your rag because it doesn't work and only makes you feel worse.
Maybe try reading about gentle parenting, I tend to think it's mostly sanctimonious hoo ha but I actually found some nice tips to try on a couple of sites.

As a childcare for the last thirty odd years. I always think the last 6 months before school is the worst.

The children are the eldest at preschool. Been there done that in there attitude and get full of them selves

They are also apprentice about the change even if they don't realise it.

Even the most well behaved placid of children can be challenging at this time.

They get to school and realise they don't know it all and it all settles down again ( until puberty and that's a whole other kettle is fish :) )

Ok lunch good, no arguments or whinging.
Park a disaster! Kept bullying little sis. Had one warning then home (think we lasted about 15 mins, any longer and I would have lost my rag!)

Got home and has been playing lego really good. So shame its a nice day and we're inside but at least some good behaviour!

Dh has said take away tonight (trying to remain positive! )

Hooray! :) I think when they're going through a horrible phase you have to count the nice moments when they happen!

ThanksEhricLovesTheBhrothers and Schosha, i think deep down I know it's ANOTHER phase but this one seems extra hard!

I know I will/can come out the other side, its just today seems to have reached the end of the rope! I think the crappy holiday has added to the weight of today.

Bed time is getting closer

Is he attention-seeking through negative behaviour? How does his day look? Is it constantly shouting at him for doing things wrong, or does he also get 1-1 time and praised for doing things right? If you were to ask him what sort of little boy he was, would he say good and kind and funny, or naughty and rude and annoying?

My 4 year old is also sometimes tricky and I seem to do nothing but shout at him, tell him to be nice to his sister, tell him if he doesn't do x then he won't get y. And then I think about his day and how shit it must be to experience that all the time. So I try to make sure there is time for cuddles and listening to him talk about his day and maybe just sit and watch TV together, with his sister out of the way. He does seem better afterwards.

As a childcare for the last thirty odd years. I always think the last 6 months before school is the worst.
his has made me a bit happier that DD will be only 4 when she goes to school (Aug born). I've been gritting my teeth with her terrible 2's thinking the end was in sight...looks like I may have to suck it up a little longer, eh?!

Just wanted to post in sympathy with you OP. My son is 4 and 2 months and is going through an awful phase. Hitting, shouting , biting. It's awful. I of feel like I'm constantly shouting at him or telling him no which I agree with PP must be awful for him but it's just so hard and he's always pushing. I know he is reacting to his new sister (7mo) and has v little one to one time with me now .

I put him up in his room one day when he wa being awful and he kicked and kicked at the stairgate until it gave way and he fell the length of the wooden uncarpeted stairs. I still feel so guilty about that

It's so hard so hugs to you

A bit after the event now, but did you give him attention when he played nicely with his lego? In my experience of little boys and praise, had you said "you're playing really nicely with that" he'd have chucked it at you, but if you sit near him and say "that looks really interesting, what are you building?" he gets the attention rather than praise to fight against.

Hopefully you're sat in front of the telly with a bucket glass of wine and the remnants of your takeaway now. You are always allowed to walk away / stand outside the front door / internally scream "why the %&*$ won't you behave?" and sob into mumsnet. We've all been there.

It may not have felt like it but the park was exactly the right thing to do - it gave your DS exercise and a complete break from his mood / behaviour before, and he got to see that his behaviour had consequences because you had to come home.

One tip - if you're going to cancel stuff because of bad behaviour, don't cancel physical activity. The planned day out from today doesn't count in this, as it would have been horrendous taking him around stalls etc, but it's very tempting to say "well we won't go swimming / out on your bike" when the exercise is the one thing that he does still need if he's being vile to you / his DSis.

Hope tomorrow's better and that this is partially overtiredness from the holiday.

for you
for your DS