So where is this "line"? Opinions please

[Namelessonsie]

So from the tipping food thread I would like people's opinions on where the "line" is.

Things I have done that I am ashamed of - dragging dd (2.5) home from a walk by the wrist when she was refusing to move after an hour if warnings of need to go and ordering etc.
Wrestled a nappy off (several times actually) when she had refused to have it changed over so many hours that it wad now leaking and/or making her bottom sore
Wrestling her into buggy / car seat when we needed to go ten minutes ago and fed up with waiting.
Shouting "shut up" in her face when she had been tantrumming loudly for several hours with no sign of let up (once continued until 3am. Yes really)

All felt absolutely awful. All probably abusive. But I did them. Does that make me a terrible parent? I apologize to her, try to make it up to her, and try to learn from it, but it is difficult when she doesn't sleep more than two hours in a row, and neither does the baby, and you are reeling....

So, who does the wrestling nappy off? How bad it that? Personally I think dragging home by the wrist is worse than dumping food in a head, so obviously my lines are blurred.

Genuinely asking btw as my own childhood was affluent but dysfunctional, so am learning as I go Iyswim...

I think the line is crossed when you stop doing it for the child's or your other child's safety or wellbeing or do it when the child isn't doing something to warrant the behaviour. If your child has tantrumed for a long time in a shop and you can't pick them up you may have to drag them Especially if you have a baby to feed and you must pull your child out of the road... its not ok to start dragging a crying child if you could pick them up or if you haven't even asked them to walk or tried looking like you're walking off without them.
its ok to shout at a child if they push you to it, though it should never come out of the blue, if your first reaction is to shout you need help, you should never shout while pinning them up against anything or restricting them...
A tiny slap on the hand for shock value in dangerous situations is Ok but I don't like smacking it teaches violence for control.

If your child won't eat so you react badly then it's Ok (depending on what you of course) if it's because you are worried about them but not if it's because you don't want to waste food, they may be full.

If a child wants something different to you, my opinion is that if there is time, an explanation should be given (you must wear your coat as it is cold) compromise should be offered, if they still are too stubborn then it's natural, if they continue to say no and it goes on and on, despite threats of punishments or removals of privileges, to become angry and you can't back down because then they will know that if they argue you will give in, but you may start to feel like you've been silly as it's blown up so far... its hard. sometimes with dsd I end up just saying look how upset you've made me until you can apologise and do as you are asked I'm going to my room. usually she pretty quickly apologises.

I think the line depends hugely on the child though, some are much more sensitive than others.

My main rules are never hit or grab tightly (ok to grab if in road etc), never pin down a child who is old enough to be reasoned with (I think it's Ok if you need to remove a nappy, or even things like clipping sharp nails on a toddler, if you can be sure not to cut them), never pin a child up against anything, never shout if you don't feel you have to or if the child isn't being naughty (obviously there are times when other things like stress and life events make up slip up on this one), never try to humiliate, never give a punishment that is inappropriate just because you are angry (especially old fashioned things like lines or holding things above the head), always try positive reinforcement first, show love as soon as you have both calmed down and accept apologies (my mum used to make me say sorry over and over until I said it right... from as young as I can remember).

oh and never say something horrible that you don't mean even If it's true in the moment or in general like I hate you, you're a bitch/ cunt/ dick head, I wish I hadn't had you, youre the nastiest person ive ever met etc etc

I'm so disgusted in that thread. So horribly disgusted. Ive got regrets about some of the actions I've taken with my kids . Now feel like a saint. I wish I'd never read that thread.

There are many things I used to beat myself up about but children are clever wee things. I am one realising you have to be bossy or instruct your child what to do - otherwise they can so take you to town. My 21 month old is not wanting nappy changes. She used to kick/ hit me but made her sit for a minute or two alone. It took a week or two but has been replaced by cuddles ( or tuddles as she says). While I don't set out to be nasty to ,y kids, if I say I'm going to do something, I carry it through. My near 4 yr old daughter today wanted to sit in her 6 yr brothers seat. I said no as it was a safety risk. She went mental - but v spirited girl. Had to make sure she sat in her own seat regardless of the tantrums. But I do make sure they know I love them would rather have a show down and let them tell me their feelings/anger warts and all,but2what I say goes and they move on quick
Y not explained that well but kids need boundaries. I don't hit or belittle tho. Just let them get their frustration out but let them know mine but carry thru what I say I'd do.