Feel like I'm going mad :(

[PollyP0429]

Forgive me if this comes out a bit disjointed, I'm fully aware this has a rant quality to it >_<

I am nearing the end of my tether, I think the only reason I'm not crying is because I am just too exhausted. DD is 3 months old, her wind has just settled down so she doesn't scream nearly constantly and she has just started being really interactive with her surroundings. She is now a pleasure to be around more than a chore. But I feel worse than ever tonight. Normally she's so good with bedtime, goes down somewhere between half 7 and 8 after her feed, bath, little kick and chat with me, top up feed to sleep. Tonight she's struggled and normally I can cope with this (mostly) but right now I just feel as if a ton of bricks has fallen on my head.

DH gets angry at DD on a regular basis, because she won't sleep, or screams in his ears or calms down with me and not him. I try to explain she is 3 months old, she doesn't understand but he just goes straight back to getting angry again. He's better than he was but it still upsets me.

DD has just dropped down a centile for her weight and the HV has put me on edge about it. She's exclusively bf and has had a very fussy couple of weeks which I think has done it, she slowly getting better at feeding again but in the meantime I trying to boost my supply and make it richer for her.

And to top all of this off, my parents are never available for help (demanding step-father means mum can't get the time to come round) and my father-in-law is having a hip operation on thursday which means they can't help either.

Is this PND? I have a history of depression but I can't help feeling like I'm just struggling with my circumstances

I don't know what to do...

Oh you poor thing. It's so tough when they're so little (I've got two, 3.5 and 10 months) and nothing can ever prepare you for it.

I can't help much on the feeding front as I started formula feeding at 3 weeks after finding breastfeeding a nightmare and my DS having reflux, but you're obviously being a brilliant mum trying to increase your supply and just generally being concerned.

I can't say if it's PND, but just so you know the vast majority of mums i know felt quite depressed and anxious in those first six months. You are more likely to suffer it as someone who's had depression, but just because you're feeling low (which in most cases is normal) doesn't mean that's what you have.

I remember sobbing uncontrollably in the shower once when my DS was three months, just through exhaustion and the general shock of the new life.

You need to really speak to your DH and tell him to try to stop being cross with her. She's just tiny and she will scream - that's what babies do. He needs to try to relax.

If you keep on feeling concerned you have PND, then go and see someone. But I reckon 99% of mothers feel a bit anxious and miserable at first. I think my DH thought I was going mad! It would be nice if you had a bit more help though. Could you not tell your mum how you're feeling?

Just a thought but why don't you try expressing a bit so your DH could feed her once a in a while? It might make him feel a bit more involved, then less likely to anger?

I have tried several times to tell/explain to DH, he's normally so placid about everything (possibly just oblivious) but DD has forced him to feel a level of frustration he's just not used to and he's struggling to cope with it.

As for my Mum...unfortunately my Step-dad suffers from bad mental health problems which make him stick to her hip. She regularly gets upset over the fact that he is so stifling and she can't help as much as she wants or as much as I need. I've tried explaining but short of leaving him there's not a lot either of us can do... I can't lie to myself and say that doesn't hurt, and I would like her to just tell him to fuck off sometimes and come help me. But she loves him and he does love her (as much as he is capable of) and its her choice to stay with him. It just means that we (my brother and I) usually come after him.

Thanks for the other comments though, I think I just needed someone to not jump on the PND bandwagon - I feel like there may be a bit of self fulfilling prophecy going on, people expect me o have it, therefore I develop it...

Can't express enough :( most I've got is 4oz when she must be on about 6 by now

It sounds a bit more like your DH could do with some help rather than you. Men can suffer from PND and one of the signs is increased anger and irritability. When you say he gets angry with her crying etc. do you feel you could trust him to look after her alone.?

Just to say I had a massive 'I'm not coping' moment when DD was just over 3 mo. Everyone said it would get easier at 12 weeks, but for me it got harder. DD had been comparatively easy weeks 5-12 (sleeping well, settled), then it all went a bit tits up at 12 weeks. Add to that the 'novelty' wearing off and other stuff going on in my life. I had a week or so of feeling very low, very isolated and alone and very scared that I was getting PND.

The good news is that it passed pretty quickly and within a few weeks I was back on an even keel and enjoying things again.

Have you got any friends or family you can talk to? I found just saying out loud to DH 'I don't think I'm coping' (through floods of tears) made me feel better straight away. Is your DH generally an angry/ frustrated person, or is it just about the baby? Could you talk openly to him about how you're feeling and how his response to your baby makes you feel? It might help if you can both get your feelings out in the open. The transition to parenthood is rocky and tough, DH and I have found it helps a lot to be able to say to each other 'this sucks'.

That's tough Polly, re: your mum and your stepdad. But I get it. Without wishing to incur the wrath of other mumsnetters... and I don't want to put you off breastfeeding if it's going well, but are you totally sure you don't want to try formula? I called my very kind (apparently unusually) health visitor in floods of tears feeling wretchedly miserable after three weeks, and she told me to try a bottle - and I never looked back. It was the most liberating thing that's ever happened to me, and my little boy went from screamy to happy in the space of 20 minutes. Seriously. My DH was thrilled, I was thrilled and my little boy was properly replete. (Turned out I wasn't producing milk from one breast as well).

It's really tough when they're age and I felt upset a lot. I don't know what tips you into pnd but 2 hopefully practical things to help in general

1. If you want to express don't worry about the amount. You can just add two batches together and get DH to feed say every other day. Also I think the more you express the more you get ie your body gets used to it.

1. HVs can be very helpful but they do tend to be obsessed with weights and charts. If you understand what is happening ie your dd wasn't feeding so well but has know picked up then don't worry

Same boat here when DS was three months, just before he or I started getting the hang of things.

What worked for us was local baby groups. Really helped to spend time with people in the same boat, get a change of scenery, have cups of tea made for me. NCT/local church/sure start should have something happening if you're not going all ready. If you're really lucky they'll do a dads and babies session too

First, have a very unmumsnetty hug. You need it.

Second, your DH is a grown up. He needs to remember that your DD isn't. When he gets cross, send him out of the room. If you have a garden send him to the end of it. It's not fair on her and it's really not helping anyone, most of all your DD. But you know that already. He justs need to leave the room until he calms down.

Third, don't be worrying about what you can express. DD1 and DD2 birth weights differed by 1 measly ounce. At seven months DD1 was on the 9th percentile (having been born on the 50th), DD2 has stayed on the 50th. DD1 will be two on Saturday and she is fine! She eats a little less than I would ideally like but she is fine and sturdy. When I expressed for DD1 I was lucky if I got 4oz. My record with DD2 is 10!! Anyway, breastmilk isn't the same as formula so you don't need to worry about quantity in the same way.

Your DH really does need to be your support - especially as your Mum can't help you so much. What does he say when you talk to him about it.

DD2 screamed for the first 4 months by the way, so I hear you. She's now a very lovely, if somewhat massively opinionated seven month old!

Thank you so much everyone for your comments, they brought a smile to my face when I've been dreading today (DH is on an all day shift)

When expressing it seems there more I try the less I get [comfused] and DD only feeds worse from me after. It took me 3 days of expressing to get less than a full feed...

As for formula, I'm not against it per se, its just not for me, that and I can't afford it.

With DH its a strange thing. He is really chilled about everything... except DD, in the beginning I was frightened to leave them alone. Now I'm not but I'm so tired I wouldn't have a choice anyway

Sounds like your DH is having some issues around the change in your lives and DD's arrival. From what I understand, this isn't unusual. Many fathers feel useless (because they can't feed and comfort the baby in the way mum can) and pushed out (because of mum's attention to baby) and frightened (new responsibility and pressure to 'provide'). It doesn't help that some of us (I speak for myself here) can't help but hover over them while they're with the baby, telling them what they're doing wrong. As well as an honest and frank discussion with him about his feelings, it might help if you can 'empower' your DH to do certain things with DD. Rocking baby to sleep for naps, taking baby away for an hour or so in the early morning so you can get some kip, taking baby for walk in pram or sling, doing bath time. Try telling him what a great job he's doing, how much DD likes snuggles with him, or whatever. DH needed his confidence boosted a bit at the beginning, but now he's a total champ and equally as able to care for and comfort DD as I am (she's 1, and I'm still bf).

Re. expressing - the more stressed you are the less you'll get. That's a fact, as far as I'm concerned. Try to relax, try looking at a picture of your DD, try pumping in the morning when you're yield is higher. And, if possible, try to pump at a similar time every day - slowly your body will get the message to produce milk at that time.

The kellymom website has lots of great information about breastfeeding and expressing, including this page on increasing your pumping output kellymom.com/bf/pumpingmoms/pumping/pumping_decrease/

Hang in there. I promise it will get better for you and for your DH.

Great advice from City, also, just try and relax. Take DD into a dark room and just sit. Get rest any way you can. DD1 would calm immediately if I started singing - the Grand Old Duke of York and a made up song worked best. With DD2 it's walking and DH doing squats with her in his arms! Until she got to the stage where we could sleep train her a bit, that's what we did in order to get rest!

So few people really can't breastfeed, it sounds as if you're doing really really well. Make sure you're both comfy. Can you lie her on a pillow? I never bothered with a special breastfeeding one. I put her on a normal one and have three behind my back. I can sleep for Britain in that position and I've never dropped her. I think one night I slept for 2.5 hours like that. DD2 didn't like sleeping lying down so that wasn't an option.

I really would encourage trying to talk to your DH about what he's feeling. Also remind him that he's probably more angry with the situation and how tired he is than with your DD. He can't be cross with her - she's too little.

You're all just learning to be a family, it's a tough time. It will get easier, I promise. Keep talking to all of us.

Hi there everyone. Good news is that I've calmed down (took until the afternoon after I wrote the original post though) and it's settled DD because I'm not so stressy - think she just had a bad day. She's currently been asleep 10 mins and went down straight from her feed which helps immensly. She's usually a good girl at night so it seems like it was just a blip. Also with positions, I started out feeding her on a pillow with me propped up but after she hit about 5-6 weeks we kind of shifted to her sitting up without either of us noticing, before I struggled to feed her at all without the pillows, now they get in the way.

I shall try expressing in the morning, I was trying at night before bed seeing as that's when she misses a feed out and I'll get back to you on how that goes :)

When DD was first born DH was quite open with the fact that he was struggling to bond (he was also a bit frightening at times he was so frustrated) so I tried, despite my instincts, to basically give up DD to him whenever I wasn't feeding her. He winded her, got her off to sleep (when I couldn't) comforted her, dressed her, changed her nappies - even though she did cluster feed a fair bit she spent more time with him than with me. Now it's balanced out a bit but he does take her in the mornings so I can get an extra hours kip and its those points when he gets really bad. He seems to feel such tremendous pressure to keep her quiet so I can sleep, I think it makes him feel resentful towards both of us... Me for getting the sleep, her for disturbing it.

I'm wondering about the comments considering HE may be depressed, he seems so much quicker to get angry or stroppy, and I THOUGHT it was just at me or DD. Watching him today he got really frustrated with the dog as well which is VERY unusual. Having said that, his Dad went in for a hip replacement today, he doesn't talk about how these things affect him but it could easily be that causing his foul moods.

Hi Polly

Glad you are feeling better today. Well done for carrying on with the bf. You are doing a great job all round and so is your DH. Don't worry about the centile. If DD is eating when she's hungry and producing wet and dirty nappies then don't panic.

I just wanted to offer a bit of practical advice which is - learn to bf lying down if you can. I did last summer when my dd was 4mo because it was so hot we'd stick to each other and then I would have to unstick her and she would wake up and it was horrid. It's fab if you need to sleep too, you can just snuggle up together and dh can join too for a family nap

I would agree that your DH is probably stressed and may be feeling depressed. It may be that he is feeling as though he has to be the source of support for you, your DD and now his dad, and your parents you say aren't available for help. Talk to each other about how best you can be kind to each other, you're a team - don't fall into the "competitive tiredness" trap or you just end up resenting each other.

As other posters have said, it does get better. It really does.

Aw OP. I do remember 3-4 months being a really hard time with my first. I think in the first weeks the sheer adrenaline and stress carries you through, and it's when you relax that the shock can hit you.

Your life is changed now, forever, and that's a lot to take. So when a bad day comes along, it seems like...what, this is my life now? But it isn't, there's so much amazing stuff to come.

My DH was not brilliant when either of mine were tiny; he did feel quite useless, tense, and stressed, and I would say, from my experience, that there is a male equivalent of male PND, IYSWIM. He is also adjusting to the change, to being needed all of the time, to the lack of freedom, personal space, all of that stuff, just as you are.

Take it easy on yourself. And talk to each other! Having a baby together can bond you like nothing else; the shared endeavour can be an amazing thing to carry between you.

Sorry I didn't read the whole thread but I wanted to respond to your post, OP.

I was near enough the same as you. The baby was a shock to both of us. I mean, we've all heard the stories of how a baby can make you tired and ratty etc but until it happens you aren't truly prepared for it.

My boyfriend was angry a lot too. He'd gone from a nice quiet life with things the way he wants them, time on his hands and nobody demanding anything from him to having a screaming baby in the house and a girlfriend asking for help. He got frustrated that tried and tested methods of getting his daughter to sleep stopped working, simply because she was growing up and changing, and the noise of the crying distracted him terribly.

However, he did change, he did get used to it. He used to be one of those people who was really grumpy in the mornings but he was forced to not be that way any more. He was actually quite evil to be around but I laid down the law and made sure he understood that this was the life he chose to have with me and if he wants to keep any of it he is going to have to work it out.

There were things he would have to tell himself, and I did the same. Such things as 'this will get better' and 'she isn't doing it to wind me up' and 'if she could talk she wouldn't cry like this she would simply ask me' and they helped.

Now when he hears his daughter crying in the morning he bounds out of bed and rushes to pick her up and soothe her, revelling in the calming effect it has on her. Granted, she's over two years old now, but he's been doing it since she was about 6 months.

I think once you've got your partner to understand that this is his new life and his old routines are going to have to change then you will feel less overwhelmed and stressed and more of a co-operative tackling a difficult task together.

As for the depression, I am also a sufferer and I must say I never felt depressed when my daughter was born. I felt exhausted, teary, had baby brain and argued with my partner a lot over baby issues, but I never felt the same kind of depression that I had before I started medication. Can you identify with that? If not then perhaps you need to visit your GP and talk about it.

Good luck, congratulations on the baby and just think about the first time your child runs to greet you with her arms out wide ready for a hug. That's what I did, and when it happened the tears were happy ones. Now each day is a complete and utter blessing, and each child related 'chore' is a joy to both of us.

Hi again, just wanted to update everyone.

Finally got DH to sort things out yesterday. It seems he was getting rather resentful to both me and DD but, after telling him that he was putting himself under too much pressure for my sake and again telling him that DD wasn't deliberately tryin to wind him up it seems to have got through. I think it was a case of him being so used to looking after me (I've needed a lot of help in the past) he was getting frustrated at DD for being hard work for me and preventing him from looking after me like he did. Once I told him that I don't need that anymore and Dd needs it it seemed to click. Today he was able to hold her through her crying and deal with it much better. I hope this continues :)

Boomerwang this feels nothing like before. I'm exhausted, wrung out emotionally, overly defensive amd absent minded but theres none of the crushing hopelessness or lack of emotion that came before. I have moments wheee I still wonder cos I did have all that as well, but most of the time I think its just because I'm being told that I have it thats causing the crap.

I keep in mind that there is so kuch to look forward to as well and I try my hardest to get giggles out of DD cos that never fails to make my day.

Also witty I can bf lying down and I have dozed off a few times however, I am actually obese and I'm so terrified of rolling onto DD that its not at all restful. Nor can I sleep while sat up.

Despite this, we are getting a bit more sleep. DD is now starting to roll onto her side so we've had to move her into her cot as she was waking up with her legs getting caught in the crib bars. This has made the world of difference to me and DH too, shes sleeping better (only waking up for 1 feed) and until about 7ish and so are we, DH doesn't even need to wake up half the time which helps.

Thanks everyone for your comments though, got me through a nasty patch :)

Hi again, just wanted to update everyone.

Finally got DH to sort things out yesterday. It seems he was getting rather resentful to both me and DD but, after telling him that he was putting himself under too much pressure for my sake and again telling him that DD wasn't deliberately tryin to wind him up it seems to have got through. I think it was a case of him being so used to looking after me (I've needed a lot of help in the past) he was getting frustrated at DD for being hard work for me and preventing him from looking after me like he did. Once I told him that I don't need that anymore and Dd needs it it seemed to click. Today he was able to hold her through her crying and deal with it much better. I hope this continues :)

Boomerwang this feels nothing like before. I'm exhausted, wrung out emotionally, overly defensive amd absent minded but theres none of the crushing hopelessness or lack of emotion that came before. I have moments wheee I still wonder cos I did have all that as well, but most of the time I think its just because I'm being told that I have it thats causing the crap.

I keep in mind that there is so kuch to look forward to as well and I try my hardest to get giggles out of DD cos that never fails to make my day.

Also witty I can bf lying down and I have dozed off a few times however, I am actually obese and I'm so terrified of rolling onto DD that its not at all restful. Nor can I sleep while sat up.

Despite this, we are getting a bit more sleep. DD is now starting to roll onto her side so we've had to move her into her cot as she was waking up with her legs getting caught in the crib bars. This has made the world of difference to me and DH too, shes sleeping better (only waking up for 1 feed) and until about 7ish and so are we, DH doesn't even need to wake up half the time which helps.

Thanks everyone for your comments though, got me through a nasty patch :)

Hi again, just wanted to update everyone.

Finally got DH to sort things out yesterday. It seems he was getting rather resentful to both me and DD but, after telling him that he was putting himself under too much pressure for my sake and again telling him that DD wasn't deliberately tryin to wind him up it seems to have got through. I think it was a case of him being so used to looking after me (I've needed a lot of help in the past) he was getting frustrated at DD for being hard work for me and preventing him from looking after me like he did. Once I told him that I don't need that anymore and Dd needs it it seemed to click. Today he was able to hold her through her crying and deal with it much better. I hope this continues :)

Boomerwang this feels nothing like before. I'm exhausted, wrung out emotionally, overly defensive amd absent minded but theres none of the crushing hopelessness or lack of emotion that came before. I have moments wheee I still wonder cos I did have all that as well, but most of the time I think its just because I'm being told that I have it thats causing the crap.

I keep in mind that there is so kuch to look forward to as well and I try my hardest to get giggles out of DD cos that never fails to make my day.

Also witty I can bf lying down and I have dozed off a few times however, I am actually obese and I'm so terrified of rolling onto DD that its not at all restful. Nor can I sleep while sat up.

Despite this, we are getting a bit more sleep. DD is now starting to roll onto her side so we've had to move her into her cot as she was waking up with her legs getting caught in the crib bars. This has made the world of difference to me and DH too, shes sleeping better (only waking up for 1 feed) and until about 7ish and so are we, DH doesn't even need to wake up half the time which helps.

Thanks everyone for your comments though, got me through a nasty patch :)

Glad it's all more positive.
Hopefully your DH will be able to start feeling like he is helping and bonding.