is it wrong to spy on my child?

[natalier84]

my son is 13 and has a smartphone. although I trust him its other people I don't. There was an incident in the family where my young nephew was kidnapped. thankfully his ok but since then I have been really paranoid.

I came across a software that can be downloaded on my sons phone. I can then log in my account and view everything that's on the mobile. I brought it mainly so I can track his location and monitor his facebook etc. although I have the option of listening to his calls I don't but I still feel guilty about spying on him.

Just to add, we have location trackers on all of our phone, so if the phone gets stolen or lost, we can attempt to find it.
However, I would never use it to track my children and check that they were where they said they would be.
If they didn't come home and I couldn't get hold of them, then I would at some point, check the location of it, but they know that and they would get an email to tell them that the location was identified.

Yeah it is wrong to spy on your child.. He is a person not just some sort of extension of you that you can stalk.

Exactly, if anything did happen the police could track the phone regardless, not that being able to track a phone is a lot of use, surely the first thing anyone would uin an abduction do is throw the thing away.

And if you fix on this one thing as the be-all and end-all of keeping a child safe, you may miss out a lot of more useful stuff.

A colleague of mine makes her husband get out of bed after nightshift every day to follow her 14 year old son during school lunch break; he only goes to the shop and back with his mates!

And her 18 year old son was not 'allowed' to go to the cinema on Friday because there was no-one available to drop him off and pick him up. Not allowed on a bus at night.

I see that your family has been through something horrifying, but really, he needs to be able to do his thing, without being tracked like he is doing something wrong.

It's not spying imo it's monitoring. Too much goes on social networking sites etc these days, it's good to have a rough idea of what's going on imo.

Wrt safety,I don't really see how the software would protect a child from being kidnapped.

I wouldn't trust a teen to make sensible decisions, even if I thought they were a good person, and for me that's all the more reason why I wouldn't go out of my way to tell mine that I have the theoretical ability to find out where their phone is, if some time I need to. That's a private emergency-only option, and (a bit like being able to phone their friends' parents to privately confirm that such and such a party at their house really is legit) not something to shout about IMO.

Put it this way, should my teen decide one day to do something really stupid - like go off and meet someone they've met online without telling anyone - at that point, I want them carrying their phone with them, not deciding to leave it behind because I've spelled out to them exactly how can track it at any time. At the very least they then have the means to phone for help if they realize they're in a sticky situation.

It's worth remembering that you don't need special software for most of this, especially the location stuff - you don't have to go and buy 'spy' software to track the location of an android phone. I think all parents would be sensible if they knew how to do this in an emergency, even if they never actually need to do it.

But kids need to learn to use buses, and be aware, and make sensible decisions about personal safety. Like, I'm getting off this bus and walking to the police station because of the weirdo staring at me. Or, too late to walk it, I'll ring Mum for a lift. Or, I'll wear my bag across my body with the fastening against me while I walk through this crowd.

Any number of small, pragmatic decisions we all have to get used to making (sadly).

It does children no favours to treat them like this, then have them leave home for independent living/Uni/travel with absolutely no clue how to look after themselves.

Too much goes on social networking sites etc these days, it's good to have a rough idea of what's going on imo.

you can do this by agree to have their pass word / check what they do, you don't need to be all clock and dagger about it.

Put it this way, should my teen decide one day to do something really stupid - like go off and meet someone they've met online without telling anyone

Which you would be unlikely to know about because they haven't told anyone. and are unlikely to talk about it on face book without deleting their messages.

I think all parents would be sensible if they knew how to do this in an emergency, even if they never actually need to do it.

Yes, this is my point, you can do this without all the clock and dagger business.

It does children no favours to treat them like this, then have them leave home for independent living/Uni/travel with absolutely no clue how to look after themselves.

Exactly, what use is being able to listen to a phone call or track a phone in a real world situation. learnignthe dangers is far more important than tracking their everymore with devices.

Parents knowing how to get a phone location in an emergency, and giving kids sensible safety advice and opportunities to practise, aren't mutually exclusive. You can do both, you should do both IMO.

I always feel kids who are driven everywhere really need this practice even more - ones who've been brought up travelling a lot on public transport and walking will generally know a lot more about what feels right, what to do if something goes wrong, how to deal with 'odd' people, how to cope with cancellations, how to choose a safe place to wait and when to give up and find an alternative way home. Again, lots of small pragmatic decisions and the more practice you can get at them before you leave home the better.

"Which you would be unlikely to know about because they haven't told anyone. and are unlikely to talk about it on face book without deleting their messages."

No, but they might have told a friend who will eventually tell all once it's clear they're properly missing. Besides, the point is not so much whether I know or not - the point is that I want them having their phone with them - not thinking "my parents wouldn't agree with me doing this, I'll have to hide the fact that I've done it, better not take my phone, since mum had that special chat with me to tell me all about how 'for my safety' they've put tracking software on it".

I was arguing against the "if you're going to track them, tell them" approach, I think it could backfire. I'd rather not track, but keep the private ability to do it in an emergency, and not shout about it first.

Besides, the point is not so much whether I know or not - the point is that I want them having their phone with them
A kidnapper will likely throw the phone away first thing.

The ability to track in emergencies is great, I don’t think anyone is against that. The police are able to do this at anytime. you don't NEED special software to track a phone.

It’s installing software that tracks their every move, logs their phone calls and lets you listen in on them which I find crosses the line.

Parents knowing how to get a phone location in an emergency, and giving kids sensible safety advice and opportunities to practise, aren't mutually exclusive. You can do both, you should do both IMO.

This is what i was getting at, what use is logging and tracking everything they do if they haven't learnt basic safety rules.

Can understand your fear

BUT

All children need to learn to keep themselves safe. Abduction from a public place is exceedingly rare and the first thing an abductor would do would be to throw the phone away down a drain, put it on a passing lorry etc.

Are you teaching your son safety techniques for himself and his belongings?

Re theft, phone should be out of sight, not constantly on display in the street. Head up when walking, not constantly down, sending texts etc

Being in a group watching out for one another especially at night and on public transport

Staying downstairs on the bus, near the driver etc

Avoiding locations which are known for trouble

You cannot keep him tied to you and you can't necessarily keep him 100% safe even when he is with you.

All you can do is teach him to keep himself as safe as possible, and give him some responsibility.

It is one thing to be able to track a phone but quite another to keep tabs in the way you describe. You might well jeopardise your relationship then he may not listen to you at all.

"A kidnapper will likely throw the phone away first thing."

Hang on, which scenario are we talking about here? There was no kidnapper in mine... just the teenager going off to an ill-advised meeting. Yes OK there may be a kidnapper but equally there may just be someone who makes them feel uncomfortable and makes them regret their decision and want to phone to be collected (using their 'no questions asked' lift, which they should always know is available to ask for in a situation where they don't feel safe). Hence, better to have the phone than to have left it behind thanks to a talk from parents advertising the fact that they can track it, which might feel really nice and honest and sensible, but could backfire.

"It’s installing software that tracks their every move, logs their phone calls and lets you listen in on them which I find crosses the line."

I argued strongly against the OP doing that in my first reply! Or at least using it, even if she has it installed (keep it unused and for emergencies, if you're really really worried).

it's a bad idea

what you do is allow a smart phone on the understanding that you will check it as you see fit - not because you have the slightest bit of interest in his messages but because at 13 it's a parents job to ensure their children are safe online etc

Hang on, which scenario are we talking about here?

The OP is worried about kidnapping.

I argued strongly against the OP doing that in my first reply! Or at least using it, even if she has it installed (keep it unused and for emergencies, if you're really really worried).

I know, for some reason we both agree but are arguing. Wires have been crossed somewhere.

OP:
To what hoboken has already said you should also tell him to remember locations and landmarks. If someone does try to abduct him, drop an item at the point of abduction (could be anything from his bag, crisps, a shoe). so he will know exactly where it took place.

My mum used that excuse when I was a teenager "it's not you we don't trust, it's othet people. " Rubbish. She was just being controlling and used it as an excuse to invade my privacy. She read mt emails and once sent my dad to a fairly tame teenage party to drag me home (fortunately I had left but 20 years on none of my friends have forgotten it). The stupid thing was there was absolutely nothing to worry about - my friends were all good kids, I did well at school and went on to do well atuniversity. However it meant that I've never told her anything as I couldn't trust her wuth any private information about my life.

All of us in the family have FindMyiPhone enabled so we can see where we all are. It is really useful and saves us having to text to ask each other.

^^ sorry re-reading my post I should have said read my diary, not my emails! I wasn't that advanced in 1995!

Completely inappropriate IMO. I hate that "it's not you we don't trust, it's other people" line spat out by controlling, overbearing parents too.

He's a teenager, let him be a teenager. The more you try to pull him in now, the more he will push away as soon as he can.

I think you should speak to your son. At 13 I was a well behaved kid, who's parents knew more or less where I was all the time. If I'd had a device on me that would've told my parents where I was if a problem arose I would've been ok about that. So, depending on whether you're using to software to actually spy on him, as opposed to being used as a safety net should the most awful thing happen, he may surprise you.

If you are actually spying on him, obviously you are the parent and he the child, so you have the right to protect him. But I worry for your relationship should he figure it out, and he will, cos kids are smart (& I've got a 2.5 yr old!)

You need to find a way through all this cos in the blink of an eye he'll be 16 & things change fast then.

I think it's fine, as long as your son knows what you are doing. Having said that, I think there are certain times using a phone to track a child without telling them is perfectly acceptable, and I would do this if I ever felt it necessary.

If you are checking his FB, and texts fine if he knows about it, but if he's chatting with a girl and then finds out later you've read the messages, I can imagine he might be really angry and go to extremes to hide things from you.

Do you know I would support you getting him chipped with a chip the police ONLY could track more than this.