Advice pls on tactfully telling friend that my DS doesn't want to socialise with her DS! Long, sorry!

[pinkpyjamas]

My DS is 10.7. My friend's DS is 9.7. My son is outgoing and friendly, engages in physical play, but knows when to stop, and he is rarely aggressive. He mixes well with children of all ages and of both sexes, generally. My son's DS is very tall and strong for his age. He's a real man's man, and is very rough at times. He often rugby tackles my DS to the floor, and has caused injury on more than one occasion, despite being asked numerous times not to do this, both by my son and by myself. He bear hugs him, which sometimes leaves my son winded. He shouts my DS down in a conversation if he doesn't agree with him. His Mum finds her DS a handful, and constantly criticises him to me in front of the child, which I have asked her not to do. She complains that he does not do as she says, and that he completely disrespects his father. She does not, however, ask her son to stop being so overpowering to my son, and defends him if I step in (which I feel I have to do eventually - considering my son is lying flattened on the floor, near to tears!). I have been very careful to be calm when dealing with the situation, explaining to both boys that if one of them decides to deal with a situation by being aggressive, they will lose friends, and that it is not acceptable to continually do something to someone (ie: rugby tackle, bear hug) once someone has asked you not to. My friend's DS is also quite rude and tactless, telling mine that his interests are boring, that "only braindead people play Yu-Gi-Oh!", that I feed him a bad diet, (this comment would seem to originate from his mother, don't you think?). My son says he is tempted to be rude back, but that he doesn't like having his feelings hurt, so wouldn't want to do it to someone else. My problem is that I really like his mother as a person, and we get on well. She infuriates me as a mother though, and is not consistent in how she deals with her children. She doesn't seem to pick up on my subtle attempts to address these issues, but I know she would be devastated if I were really blunt - and I'm useless at confrontation! Advice please on how to address these issues and support my son, yet remain mature and objective, and hopefully still have a friendship! Thanks.

HOnestly it doesn't sound like you respect your friend's parenting abilities much which must make it difficult to maintain a friendship

If your DS doesn't like this boy then he's far too old to be 'made' to play with him

Sit down with your 'friend' and tell her outright that your DS is unhappy at being made to play with her DS because he is not as physical in his play and you don't want to force him to do it anymore

then have your diary there and arrange a night when you can see your friend for drinks or something similar

Stay friends with her but leave your children out of it is my advice. You cannot subject your son to this and she won't do anything about and won't thank you for it if you tell her what you think so I think just refuse to socialise with her with the children and suggest alternatives instead, i.e. meeting her in the evening.

That's what I'd do anyway. And if she really pushes it say 'well, ds doesn't want to play with your ds and I don't think it's fair to make him play with people he doesn't want to, he's old enough to have a say in it.' and leave it at that. Keep just repeating it, don't be drawn, be vague, keep calm, she adn her son should get the message. Your boy sounds lovely btw and very sensible.

It's a tough one, but your own Ds is 10, and therefore he is old enough to know who he wants to socialise with, and if he feels he doesn't want to mix with this child then he shouldn't, your Ds sounds like a really great kid BTW.
I had a friend once whose Ds was similar to your friends, he was an absolute nightmare,a nd would rugby tackle my son, they were 4 at the time, he would jump on him, jump on furniture, and in all honesty i think the mother couldn't handle him. On her own though, she was lovely.

ooh, that's a CONSENSUS, we ALL said more or less the same thing! Simple innit?

Thanks for your comments. I agree it would be best to leave the children out of the situation, but we both have younger children (mine DS 8 and her DD 7) who play really well together and are great friends - plus we live an hour away from each other, so meeting up without the children in the evenings is not really an option. Maybe I'll arrange for DS1 to visit another friend next time we're due to meet - although this won't be possible every time. I appreciate the advice from everyone; it's really helpful and has enabled me to gain some perspective. This parenting lark is so emotional isn't it? I didn't sleep last night worrying about this situation, and I was considering sending her an email to explain everything - now see that would be A REALLY BAD IDEA!!! Good job I posted on here first! LOL! Thank you.

AAARGGHH! My DS1 went to his favourite club today as they are having special holiday sessions. My friend's DS also turned up for the first time. He pushed my DS around, criticised him, and was really rude. My friend also stayed with her son although no other parents do - the session lasted for 6 hours!! Her DS got into a scuffle with another boy, and this other boy hit her DS in the groin. My DS says she made this boy apologise in front of everyone, and told him that if he was in school, he would have been suspended. (Hope this all makes sense - I'm cross, so it's like a stream of consciousness!!). Now my son doesn't want to go back, but this is so unfair as he usually loves this club, and gets on with all the other children and the leaders. I can't speak to the leaders as my DS is 10 and would be embarrassed, but nor am I willing for him to be subjected to this behaviour from my friend's son. There are never usually any scuffles, as the minimum age to join is 9, and the other children seem to know better than to fight and argue. Any suggestion please?

As unpleasant as it may seem, you need to bite the bullet and be honest with your friend. You are the one person who can protect your son from this bully, and if that means losing an unsympathetic unhelpful "friend" along the way, so be it. They say the apple doesn't fall far from the tree, and I am sure this lad has picked up his snyde comments from his mom. Why should she be able to ostracise another child for behaviour that her DS displays toward your son regularly unchecked. I'd use this incident as an oportunity to clear the problem!!!

erm, did she take her son to this club because your ds would be there? If you live an hour apart, it's presumably a fair distance for her to come?

If her ds is like this with everyone he meets, possibly he doesn't actually have that many people to hang out with and she's pinning some hopes on your ds as his mate?

Judging by her making this other boy apologise like that, she maybe isn't going to be that receptive to constructive criticism of her ds...

I can't see what you can do beyond letting your ds have an excuse not to go next time you visit.

The other boy may not bother going to the club again - doesn't sound like he had much fun there.

Hi CM, she didn't bring him along because my son was there, but she knew he attended it, because she gave us the details of it. We travelled about 45 mins, they live about 15 mins away. You are right - she would not take any constructive criticism well. I also agree with Mrsaek in that I have to protect DS1 from this situation.

oh I see. I 'd assumed that because your son went regularly, it was nearer you than them iyswim.

wouldn't the leaders at the club do something to stop the violent behaviour if your friend's ds went again and behaved the same way?

Why was she there? Does he have SN or something? (Just seems weird to me - I'd leave ds2 aged 4 somewhere, but not ds1 aged 7 with SN). Seems very odd to be the only parent staying at that age. Where was her dd?

I really can't see the pleasure in these meet-ups for ANY of you; even your friend must know in her heart of hearts that things are going badly wrong here.

I agree, you can protect your DS from it so far as you can, by not seeing her! if she and her ds are going to arrive at clubs where you go, well that's unavoidable; but you don't have to make arrangements to see eachother outside these.

If it were me I would probably tell a tactful truth; not so harsh as to totally upset but pretty straight; "DS wants to play with his friends from school".

I personally think if you are determined enough you could see eachother in the evenings; could you get an evening out now and again, or a morning to meet for coffee when kids with someone else? Because at the moment your DS is getting nothing but some nasty experiences out of seeing her, so why involve him? If you value her friendship, keep seeing her but without him!

JimJams2 - her DD was at home with DS. Her excuse for staying was that there was a shortage of adults, but I don't think that was true. There were 20 - 25 kids, and five or six leaders. Anyway, if they were short of an adult, I can't imagine them asking the mother of a child who hadn't been before - don't they all need to be police checked or something? I am now wondering if she stayed because she was worried about how he would behave?

And with regard to her knowing that things are going badly wrong, I got an email earlier this evening saying that she had really enjoyed herself, and asking when we should meet up next!

How well do you know her? The whole thing just shouts SN at me- especially the staying.

JimJams 2 - pretty sure there is no SN issue. We've all been on holiday together and stayed in same house, so we know them pretty well. (What a week! . Also my friend's DS does other clubs such as rugby, alone(although it has just reminded me that his Dad has become a coach). My youngest DS had a mis-diagnosis of ASD when he was younger, and we have discussed this, but no mention was made about any SN in their family.

oh doesn't sound like it if you know them that well! The staying is frankly odd then, would suggest she realises he has behavioural issues and therefore may be open to a sensible conversation about it and the effect it has on your ds with you.

Thanks JJ2. I think I may broach the subject gradually and see how we go. It won't be pretty, I fear, as friend genuinely seems to think her son can do no wrong! Thank to everyone for your comments.