Passing it on to the next generation

[Indith]

I have posted some stuff on another thread but I would love to hear peoples experiences on this one. Being bilingual and wanting to pass on both your languages to your children. Not parents with different mother tongues but couples where one of the parents themselves has 2 mother tongues.

I'm expecting number 1 and was brought up speaking French and English (my parents read nothing on the matter, ignored all advice and seemed to have the best result of all other bilinguals I know!). DP is English but speaks French very well. Now all this stuff comes under my area of study, I know all the theory about what goes on in the kids brain, I have no wories about confusing the baby or muddling language and so on but I do wonder how people make sure they speak enough of the other language, we live in England and we speak English together (Although considering that at the end of the year he will be sitting his finals in French we may well try to change that) and I know that I will not be able to do as my parents did and only speak to my child in French.

I'm thinking of trying to have 'French time' at meals for example but I don't want it to get to be a chore and have the children not wanting to speak French as they get older. I will of course have lots of songs and story books but my mum lives a couple of hours away, too far to regularly see her and have total French with 'Mamie'. There are well over 150 cousins of various sorts on the French side so I really want to make sure my children are perfectly happy mixing with them!

I don't really see your situation as that different from parents with different mother tongues. It would be if your DP spoke a third language.
Is it because both Eng/Fr seem so natural to you that you will want to speak both to your child?

Hi Indith, This is a really interesting situation.. I´ve never seen anything written on how a bilingual mother passes on both her mother tongues to her own children!

Having said this, I think you´ll probably agree that one of your languages is dominant and this could be said to be your 1st language. I think it would be a mistake to speak both languages to your baby, given it is known that this leads to confusion. As you seem to plan to stay in the UK, why not speak French at home, en famille, as your child will be brought up and educated in English? Why couldn´t you speak exclusively to your child in French? Are you saying English is your dominant language?

Bringing up a bilingual child myself, in a 3rd language country, I think regular visits and holidays "home" are critical, along with of course all the books, songs, DVDs etc. As baby gets older and certainly by school age I would leave him/her with (monolingual?)French family members to facilitate the development of that language.

Good luck!

We are in this situation. I speak only English DH is bilingual english / spanish, he is adament that it only feels natural to speak to our kids in English. Our kids know some spanish but are by no means bilingual, their grandmother speaks to them in Spanish and the eldest (5) has been going to a spanish class for 2 years. They have countless cousins in Spain. I am fairly impressed by my eldest sons Spanish and DD knows some not so sure about DS2. Having said all that DS1 definately knows far more spanish than friends in his class with same home situation. I've waffled but that is our experience

Thanks for the responses so far!

Blonde- I think it feels like it will be different for me because my parents each spoke only in their own mother tongues to me, my mother's English certainly wasn't very good when I was younger! Both backgrounds are an equal part of me though it may not be a huge culture gap it still makes a difference and I want that to be passed on and not cut my children off from a huge part of their family.

Raring-I would have to disagree about the confusing aspect of speaking two languages but that is the linguist in me! My English has become dominant over the years, my education is in English and moving away from home has meant I really don't speak French that often. That said I just spent a month over there with family and it didn't take long to be right back on track. Speaking French only at home would be hard as although DP speaks great French it is still hard work for him and not natural. I suppose though that if I push myself to speak only French with the baby it wouldn't take long for it to be natural (although my nursery rhyme and song knowledge is definitely more English!)

Geo-Good to see someone in the same situation and it sounds like things are going ok for you. I'll certainly be banning my mum from speaking English!

I speak only English, DH is bilingual Swedish (American)English. He speaks only Swedish to our toddler. Main problem for us is that LO doesn't get to hear Swedish conversation between adults apart from on family holidays with GMa & extended family

Indith - I would expect that you could easily speak only French to your LO and depending on your location in the UK you may find some French toddler groups. You will also have the advantage that French is often available at nursery or preschool in the UK.

Hi Indith, just to clarify, I didn´t mean speaking 2 languages is confusing but that a baby is confused when one person speaks 2 languages to him/her. eg. I think it would be a big mistake to speak French at meal times or other allocated times and English at others.

It sounds like your French is generally dormant but I´m sure things like French nursery rhymes are sleeping in your brain somewhere! Brought up monolingual, I´ve surprised myself coming out with nursery rhymes etc. that I never knew I knew and must have picked up from my mum...

Will be interested to know how you get on! By the way, I´ve successfully learned my DHs language along with our daughter! I´m sure your DP will become fluent in French too, given time!

I am not an expert, but like you I am totally bilingual, very comfortable with both English and my mother tongue. I learned English when we moved to the UK when I was about 9 years old. I know how easy it is for a child to learn 2, 3, 4 other languages with ease under say the age of 12. Beyond that most find it difficult to speak a 2nd language as a native, without an accent.

What I have seen is that many children in the UK lose their mother tongue because they do not have consistent and regular exposure to it in the home.

I would say each of you should speak to the child in the langauge that you are most comfortable with. I guess in your situation, as your husband is not a native speaker of French, it might be best if you stick to French and he to English. Like you say, the resaon you speak French so well is because your parents only spoke to you in French and presumabley you learned English at school and in the community ?

I think what your parents did was perfect and very sensible. Where it all goes pear-shaped (I have seen it often with parents who speak my language and who live in london) is where the parents start speaking to the child in different languages, very inconsistently, half day in English, half day in Swedish, the next day in Spanish, etc. This just doesn't work in my view. Whatever language you chose to speak to the child, stick to it !

My son (now 2.2 years) has never ever heard me speak to him in English and never will. The minute I start speaking to him in English, he will think it is ok to reply to me in English and then that will be it. That is where it all went wrong for my sister. She has 3 children all born in the UK, not one of them speaks our language because she gave in and started to speak to them in English the minute they went to school.

I also often hear parents or grandparents who speak English as a second language speak to their child in English with a heavy foreign accent and usually bad grammar, and I think why in god's name do they do it ? It is much better and easier to speak to a child in the language that you are most fluent in instead of a language you speak poorly !

Best of luck !

Thanks all of you

I always find it so easy to give the advice about things like this, know all the theory etc (thats where bloody language and linguistics degrees will get you) Suppose I'm just worried because of not speaking French on a regular basis for so long. But, thanks for all the advice and I will be pushing myself to reconnect to my French brain!

Indith - your French will come back to you naturally once you start to speak to your child in French.

I have Turkish as a passive language (my grandmother was from Azerbaijan and spoke to me in Azeri Turkish - I stopped speaking it at around age 5 when she died as no one bothered to speak to me in Turkish) yet amazingly I understand the language perfectly.

Only the other day, I went into a corner shop and the guy asked me whether I am Turkish (I am not, I just look quite Eastern due to dark brown hair and dark eyes !) and I said no, but I understand the language. So he started to rattle off in Turkish and I understood every word he said, but I could only reply back to him in English !! He was very surprised too.

So you see, languages are like riding a bike, you never forget them really, they are always in the back of your brain you just have to dust off the skills you have !

I am in a similar position. I was born in Italy, but moved here at school age, and having an english father I was bilingual at that stage anyway.
My Italian is poor now and I have trouble speaking to relatives,I am good in conversation but find myself struggling for words sometimes, but I want to pass Italian onto my children.
My DH is engish so it's natural for both of us to speak english around the house, and I feel like when I'm speaking italian it is forced and they are not very receptive to it. I'm not sure how to resolve this.

I will check back on this conversation with interest.

Ava - why don't you start to revive your Italian at the same time as speaking to your children in Italian ? Why not join a local Italian class or Italian club of some sort or if you are rich (??) hire a private tutor to teach all of you ? If you do it together it will be much more fun and less of a chore.

What a beautiful language by the way, I started to learn basic Italian at home (with CD's and books) a few months ago and often watch Italian satellite programmes with my son.

I find TV great for repetitive vocabulary, in fact I think all the English I knew before I moving to the UK aged 9 came from Sesame Street !!

Good luck.

hello there.
I am italian and my DH is english. I am very aware that I have to speak italian with dd as much as I can and at all times to have any chance of her picking it up.
It's true it's not easy at times especially when you are with other non italian speaking people - like in playgroups and with in laws. I feel a bit awkward as no one can understand me and I feel rude.
But really you have to be strong and insist.
i am trying to stop buying books and dvds in english as she's got so many already (she's only one bless)and get italian ones...
it frustrates me not having the same choice though

Useless: funny what you say about feeling rude !

I have lived in the UK practically all my life, but have never spoken to my mother a word of English anywhere, in shops in restaurants, with friends around, etc. We have always told our friends and English relatives that they mustn't feel offended if we speak our own language, because it is our ONLY means of communicating with one and another and we are not trying to be rude !

They all understand. That is the beauty of living in the UK, it is so multicultural it is unbelievable. I live in a part of London that is full of all sorts of nationalities, and I would say 90% speak to their children in their mother tongue in public. I can hear at least 3 different languages at any given time in the playgrounds here !

So don't worry, just keep speaking in Italian and tell you friends you are not being rude

Uselessmum
We get family in Italy to mail books from there, or buy them whilst visiting, they are impossible to come across here!

Sorry to be brief , I just checked in mid cooking
I'll be back to this thread later as I'm so pleased to find others in the same position.

Thanks for your tips yellowrose. You're right though I shouldn't feel ashamed or embarassed. and thinking of it it won't be good if dd senses it.

avalou, I don't know where you live but have you ever been to the italian bookshop in london. they've got quite a few things, expensive though!!
it's not hard to get them from italy, but it's just so nice at times to go to a bookshop with dd and sit there to read etc, or to go to the library don't you think. oh god I'm such a winge today...

by the way if you are interested in this sunject you might want to check this web site. it is fairly new so not too many visit yet but lots of info and ways to meet up with other bilingual families...

www.multilingualfamily.co.uk

and that's interesting too:

www.caffecaldesi.com/courses.php?nav=e4&type=3

According to the advert in my local newspaper, children learn to cook italian healthy meal while learning a few sentences of italian.

useless - yes you are right. It is very important that you feel confident in speaking your mother tongue because it will give your kids a good vibe !

Food and Italian always go well together !

Avalou

Sounds like you and me have a similar issue.

I was born and brought up her by Italian parents who spoke to me in Italian (and dialect but that is another story ) so by age 5 I spoke only Italian. When I started nursery my dominant langauge changed to English but my parents and my grandfather who lived with us still spoke to me in Italian. Now my spoken Italin is adequate but really not good enough to pass on to my child and I feel sad that ds (21 months old) won't learn to at least understand Italian. Also dh doesn't speak any Italian so using it at home might be difficult.

BTW there is are a couple of book shops in Central London that sell Italian books - not sure if that is where you live though.

I am in London, what are these shops called please?
It is a good suggestion for me to revive my Italian. I may look into night school, or an Italian/English dinner party club, my friend goes to one of these with Spanish people and has met some lovely people through them.
In fact, do you think there are enough mumsnetters in London to get our own started?

Lazycow, did you live in Italy? I was born in Latina, but my mother is originally from Florence.

Avalou

I never actually lived there though we spent long summers there. Also my sister went to live there as an adult and her children were brought up there. My parents are from Parma and Paicenza in the North.

I think a dinner party idea is fantastic - maybe we should start one up for anyone in London who wants to meet up say once a month and speak Italian only. That way maybe our language would improve .

Link to the main one I use in Leicester Square

Italian bookshop

Thankyou for the link, I can't wait to go there.

I think the dinner meetings are a great idea, we could include mumsnetters who are studying or just wanting to learn Italian too perhaps.

I will post on the meet up board in the next couple of weeks, as I am too busy with our house renovations to organise nything at the moment.

Avalou and lazycow - I am going to mention satellite again incase you don't already use it !!

I get around 5 - 6 Italian programmes on my satellite. I am not sure if cable Tv has Italian too, but it may be worth finding out. I really do find a few hours a day of any language on TV a great help.

I know someone here in London who is a fluent French speaker (he used to work in France). He watches an hour or so of French TV programmes on satellite every day and says he finds it very helpful just to hear some French once a day

Good luck with the dinner parties - I am moving out of London soon otherwise would love to join in even with my very very basic Linguaphone Italian !