I'm not happy with how we're handling 5yo's eating

[BertieBottsJustGotMarried]

Wondered if anyone could either reassure me or offer any advice?

DS has always been a fussy eater, and food has always been an issue ie he doesn't eat a lot. But I think that, really, the problem is fussiness rather than amount, as he can happily eat what I would think of as a normal child's portion if he likes the food and something more interesting doesn't come along.

Lunch and breakfast are fine, the main issue is dinner. He has such a limited list of foods/meals he will eat and picks at every little thing. He has the same thing for lunch every day too, but I don't mind that so much because it's lunch! I suppose I could make him a version of the same dinner but it would be nice to mix it up a bit. Currently he will happily eat without any complaint: Pizza, pork chop/chicken breast with chips or (sometimes) veg, "cold dinner" which is basically lunch again - ham/sausage/salami with crackers or crisps and crunchy salad veg ie peppers and cucumbers.

There are a few others which are hit and miss - chicken nuggets and chips, spaghetti bolognese, pasta with tomato sauce and spare fridge ingredients, beans on toast. He proclaims to hate stew but will pick out the meat and carrots and eat them fairly happily.

We tried for a while to have family dinners around a table, but DS would just sit there for hours and barely eat anything. DH discovered that DS ate more without thinking when he was sitting in front of the TV so we went back to that - it's what I resorted to when he was little and barely ate. I hate this, but it seems less stressful for him.

I don't know how to deal with it when he says he doesn't like something, because he has such a limited amount of foods that he DOES like, it's so frustrating - and the list has got smaller, he used to eat more. DP is big into encouraging him to try stuff, and saying things like "You have to eat four more carrots and then you're allowed pudding". I am against this kind of thing in principle but I know that DS will avoid eating something which is mediocre if he thinks there's a chance he can get pudding or crisps or something instead. For example if you give him a sandwich and crisps, he will eat the crisps and then leave the sandwich because he's taken the edge off his hunger. But given the sandwich first, he'll eat it totally happily and eat the crisps as well. He also has a maddening trait where if you tell him the name of something he definitely doesn't like it, but if you can get him to try it without knowing what it's called or telling him it's something he does like (e.g. turnip is "yellow carrot"), he'll like it and often he starts something, likes it, and then decides he doesn't by the end. GAAAAAHHHHHHH!! I hate all this naming of foods, hiding food, lying about foods. I swore I would never do it.

This also happens when he thinks something exciting is happening. We were staying with family recently and their DS ate much faster than DS and asked to leave the table. As soon as he left DS was miraculously "full up" and didn't want any more even though he had been happily eating before - he just wanted to go and play and not be sat at the table eating. Again, we resorted to saying "You need to eat at least X much more".

It's so stupidly hard. I thought he would have grown out of this kind of thing by now. I want to leave him to it and let him eat nothing, but TBH, we can't afford to keep throwing food away especially when he then later starts crying saying he's hungry - I do sometimes let him have some toast. I was making dinner one day and it took ages and by the time it was ready, he looked really excited, I put it down and he burst into tears saying "I can't eat that, I don't like it." I felt AWFUL for him, I could just imagine being starving hungry and then being presented with some food which you're just 100% sure you won't like. DH was a bit less sympathetic and let him have a cry for a bit and then managed to get him to try some, and he did actually like it. But I just can't shake the feeling that I'm being mean all the time by serving him food I know he won't immediately love. But then it's so stressful trying to stick to his limited diet all the time again.

I'm abroad so no idea about freecycle etc - can't speak the language well enough anyway. It's on the list it's just getting around to doing it (especially as we don't have a car to get it home!)

Hatty he goes to kindergarten where they have a packed breakfast at 9.30 and then they're allowed to eat the leftovers or have a snack of bread and fruit at 1pm. I think this is a long time to go without food so I pack him two full "breakfasts" which is 3 items out of the following: Brioche roll, fromage frais sized yoghurt, fruit (1 apple/orange/banana, handful of grapes, etc), croissant, 1/2 ham/marmite/jam sandwich, cooked frankfurter sausage. Then we get home at about 2.15 so he has lunch at about 2.30, later if we need to go to the supermarket after kindergarten (although then it's more of a snack).

He always comes back with an empty lunchbox, so I assume he's eating it all.

Don't worry about repetition - there are plenty of years for him to cultivate his tastes.

If you are giving him home cooked unprocessed food, then don't worry if all he eats is chicken and salad every dinner time then so be it. I would definitely not be offering crisps or dessert though. They are devoid of nutrition and creating very bad habits/setting precedent.

Also don't stress at dinner time if he has eaten well through the day. If he doesn't eat his dinner - I would just keep it aside and if he asks for food before bed wheel it out.

I know it's hard - as I have an ex-hideously fussy 13 year old (who now eats a fabulous array of Asian; Indian; Middle Eastern food). You become so concerned about lack of food that you plump it out with empty calories and junk to lessen the guilt. It's not worth having to deal with the fallout later on (weight gain happens when the cycle becomes out of control - it did with my DS) and then having to start from scratch with a belligerent pre-teen.

Stop offering crisps and sweet treats, offer lots of water with meals and cook together if possible. It will get better.

I think it's all part of the small child trying to control their world thing - mine ate very similar things, they liked to be able to identify every item - so cherry tomatoes were fine - a tomato-y sauce was not. Sounds pretty healthy to me what he's eating! Fruit, veg, protein etc. Whereabouts are you? Are the other children taking similar things?

ps what time is he having evening meal? 2.30 obvs very late for lunch - esp if he's had two good meals at nursery - might be why he's picking at his food in the evening?

About 5pm but it could be 5.30/6ish. Problem is if it's too late he's too tired to eat properly, although that's possibly habit because that was a big problem when he was 2 so possibly time to rethink. I don't like him going to bed too soon after eating though as I have an idea that it's not good for digestion - may be making that up though. He goes to bed at 7 but possibly time to extend bedtime a bit. He's been a bit of a pain about going to bed so perhaps letting him have quiet play in his room after 7 for half an hour would help with that too.

I think the other children take in similar amounts of food, I asked him and he said so. I don't know that they are "two good meals" though, it doesn't seem like very much to me. They have free access to water throughout the day and he drinks a lot. I'm in Germany.

Meals at the table can be really difficult!
Stuff that worked for me (mine are aged 2 and 4):

1. My job is to put the food on the table and try to maintain a calm atmosphere (ie for my kids, no nagging to eat for at least the first ten minutes).
2. Rule is that they must sit at the table with food in front of them for at least 30 minutes. They don't have to eat any food, although I will encourage them to eat at least one vegetable (after trying to serve at least two so it's not a disaster if they leave one totally). We can just chat if they want. Pudding comes out after 20 minutes.
3. Any whinging to be met with a calm/sympathetic approach but no offer of alternative food. Main focus is to keep them calm and sitting at the table. I will help them pick out the leeks in the stew if they really seem distressed by them.
4. Having a mid-morning and mid-afternoon snack, and milk at bedtime. So if a meal is not eaten at all, it's not the end of the world.
5. "Treat" food (cakes, biscuits, crisps, sugary puddings) only once a day (I do it as mid-afternoon snack so pudding cannot really be used as a bribe or a reason not to eat main course; but better for their teeth if you do it as a pudding.)

Also, keep food quite boring! Don't cook as if you are trying to tempt an adult, but as if you are trying to tempt somebody who's quite scared of food. So have five meals a week of stuff you feel they will probably eat, then two meals of something different - but the two new things then need to keep rolling out every week for at least a month, presented in the same way, so they become very familiar. I found the "Simplicity Parenting" book really helpful on this - basically, it says make Monday night soup night, Tuesday night rice night, Wednesday night pasta night etc, and it seems really boring to us but to children it feels safer and easier to have predictability. That can also stop you worrying about what to cook/what you have cooked, and that again leads to a calmer atmosphere at the table.

I agree maybe push dinner later to 6pm. Mine know that after dinner it will be tidy up then bath then bed so if you don't eat dinner there is no time left afterwards for snacking. (We have dinner at 6pm, lights out at 8pm and that works fine - the 4 year old probably could do with a bit more sleep, but he is such a nightmare to settle down that I prefer him to go to bed fairly exhausted). Sorry for babbling, will stop posting now.

No this is all really helpful, thank you :)

I did him a pork chop today which he was really excited about (because they have pork chops in Minecraft ) but I did it in the pan I'd done mine and DH's in and it had loads of (yummy) meat juice on it which had gone a bit brown through being cooked twice and he didn't like it :( I may try again on a perfectly clean griddle pan because I'm sure it's something he would like but I think he was put off by the appearance and that affected the taste to him.

I will try pushing it a bit closer to bedtime too, I think.