at what age would you start insisting on certain 'behaviour' at mealtimes

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DS is 18mo, and has recently starting refusing to go in his highchair. We bought a trip trap type chair from Amazon, which he seems to like, and seems to enjoy being closer to the table with us.

Sometimes though he refuses to go in, and only wants to sit on our lap and eat from there, or better, be fed. This always ends with food everywhere and DP or I just getting frustrated at him (and ourselves for having given in). We have managed to coax him into the chair with a bribe say, usually a book at the table, or we sing him a song while he eats, that kind of thing.

Other times, when he refuses, especially if its after nursery and he's tired and hungry but wound up and more interested in playing than getting with the food-bath-bed-before-its-too-late programme, I end up sitting on the kitchen floor with him, reading, and feeding him his dinner, which keeps him happy (DP and I eat later on nursery nights, its too much of a logistical nightmare otherwise)

My question is - should I be insisting on some basic things, i.e. you sit in your chair at the table to eat. No books, no music, no iphone (I confess - once I used it to coax him in and keep him there....). Otherwise, no food. Really, I don't have many things I want to insist on, but sitting down together at mealtimes is one of them. You don't have to eat, or even like what's on offer, or sit down for long, but if you ARE hungry, this is where everyone is eating.

Is he too young? Am I expecting too much? Will he understand this reasoning? Or do I just go with the flow, keep mealtimes fun and relaxed, without 'rules' until he's older and I can reason with him? Maybe when he's closer to 2? Chances are a week from now he'll have mixed things up again and will only want his dinner if its served from a plate ON MY HEAD so I don't want to be too inflexible if its just too early??!!

I might had that he was BLW and until recently would sit in his highchair and feed himself happily. I was feeling fairly smug about this and full of all these grand ideas of how I'd insist on certain things at mealtimes, but the slight whiff of a challenge and now I'm just questioning everything!!

Afraid I have no help but want to see the replies as my 19 month old is v similar and I feel exactly the same - which battles to pick and where to draw the line has become increasingly unclear.....

I think you've said it yourself:

"I don't have many things I insist on but sitting at the table at mealtimes is one of them."

I think he's old enough to eat, then have the toys after while you and DH finish up.

I think dinner after nursery may always be a flash point though. Does he need a hot meal? Maybe those nights could be picnic tea instead - I'm be tempted to do that meal more casually.

I had rules for mealtimes (no throwing food/plates, sitting in your chair etc) from the start tbh. Certainly at 18 months it was either sit up at the table and eat or get down and don't.

Ds2 is 20mo and he knows the rules are to sit in his chair to eat his dinner and that there are certain rules like I will pick up his spoon the first time he throws it on the floor and maybe the second but then he gets a warning and his food is taken away until he calms down/stops throwing. I think it helps that he has ds1 (4.9) to copy so he knows that you sit at the table to eat/use your cutlery/don't play with toys/don't throw food/wait until everyone has finished etc.

I was probably more flexible with ds1 at that age but I know ds2 understands what I say to him and I have to implement the rules for ds1 so ds2 also has to follow them (more or less - he doesn't always use cutlery etc).

I think they benefit from having specific, simple, routines/rules that have to be followed so that they know what to expect. Ds2 now goes to try and climb in his chair as soon as I say it's dinner time.

I would start now, never too young you just have to be a bit more flexible.

Perhaps put in into his high chair while you serve up the food and allow him to have a play with something while you do then toys away when tea is served and then he has to eat with the rest of you. Lots of praise when he is eating nicely and ignore silliness

I am a bit biased, as DH is French and we lived in France when DS was this age, and they are quite serious about proper behaviour at the table from a young age. So there was no real option to do any of the things you're doing. I think you need to start as you mean to go on, with as little drama as possible but with very clear rules.

There were a couple things we did to distract DS from any fussiness (which we still do today at times when he's super tired and cranky). One is to give him choices about things that don't really matter -- which seat to sit in, or which colour cup do you want your water in, or which napkin do you want. That gives him some feeling of control so hopefully he won't be as bothered about the important things, like actually sitting at the table.

Also, I found his crankiness would peak at times when he was bored and needing a new challenge. So then I would introduce something new -- using grown up bowls and cutlery, or sitting on a normal chair, or using bigger cups or something.

I think basically they will go through so many phases in the coming months, and you can drive yourself crazy trying to respond to each, so it's better for your own sanity to pick a consistent approach and just stick with it.

It may be that he has quite a late snack at the nursery. My son is never that interested on food on a childcare day - I think they give quite substantial snack at 4pm.

Other than that I would say it might be wise to chill out about certain things, the dinner table is the worst place to have a battle with a toddler so just make sure that you are not inadvertently rewarding bad behaviour by giving him lots of attention for it. Clear boundaries, ignore the bad behaviour and reward the good ( so if he's in his highchair lots and lots of praise, if he won't get in then tell me your not playing with him & ignore him etc) he will soon get the picture.

I too have always insisted. Some things aren't negotiable. What he's learning now is if he kicks up a fuss then you will sit on the floor and feed him whilst cuddling him. All my dc went through phases of not wanting to be strapped into the car seat except ds who didn't have a phase, it was a permanent state of being, but there's not a choice. For me it's the same with sitting at the table at mealtimes, it's just 'what you do' and was from when they could first use it at 6 months. Don't have a problem with them having a toy or book if they have to be in there when there's no food. Also, we always sat and ate together, which I think helps - it's a bit different if he's the only one sat at the table I suppose.
What you have to decide is how important it is to you, so therefore you will know if you want to insist (without bribes) that is what happens.

I don't think he is too young. I think it would be far more confusing for him if you were to suddenly change the rules when he is a bit older. At 18 months I wouldn't be expecting him to sit in his high chair for long, but yes, to get in, and if he's going to eat it happens there.

thanks everyone, it all makes sense and is all stuff I always said I'd do. I don't check my email/sing/read at the table, so why should he.

I think that post nursery I will keep it relaxed, and I like the pic nic suggestion. It's pretty much what we do now, but I'll give him food that doesn't need a spoon so he can just do it himself.

He can actually climb out of his high chair, so what happens is we get him in, and then he cries and screams and wants to get out. We try "sit down, on your bottom etc" in serious voice, but I don't want him to hurt himself, so I guess from now I'll just get him out and ignore him/let him play on his own, until he decides he wants to come back for food, and ignore him when he tries to climb onto my lap etc. Might offer him a big chair or that kind of thing but insist on chair or nothing.

Good point re the carseat - it's just what we do.

I guess I just need to have more confidence in my instincts. He's only now becoming a bit challenging and all my great ideas are being put to the test. I guess that's the whole point of parenting though!

I insist no sitting at the table = no food. I just leave the food on the table and that is that. No coaxing or faffing around with toys, if they do sit down then loads of praise, smiles cuddles.
I have four DC and after major food battles with DC1. DH and I developed a don't care attitude to eating. The rules are;
Sit at the table,
No playing with food,
Use cutlery to the best of your ability,
Wait until most people are finished before leaving the table will eventually be everyone but DS3 eats really slowly so I make allowances.
They get two warnings and on the third offence dinner is taken away.

I think on nursery days it might help if one of you could also eat with him. Even if you just have something light. Lay the table and put dishes in the middle so he can choose what he wants to eat. Make it an experience rather than a chore.

Hmmm. Well I'm the other end of the spectrum. We don't actually own a dining table or any table as when we have had one no one feels comfortable eating around it and we all like to have dinner on our laps and watch TV. Both dc (dd now 11 and ds 19 months) have had a highchair with tray in the living room with us while we eat and once they can sit at the sofa they graduate to there!

Probably because I was brought up in a way in wwhich food was meant to be eaten even if you didn't really like it and focused on not wasting anything I have now gone the opposite way with my own dc. I let them eat however much of their dinner they want, they can then play or read as long as they let me and dh eat ours in peace ! I don't have time or energy to battle about it all.

Sometimes if I come in with ds after a long trip out somewhere we have a picnic on the kitchen floor! Sometimes we eat cake before lunch or sometimes he's even had ready brek for dinner because that's the only thing he's wanted.

If they don't eat what I give them then I try something else with them later.

I tend to give ds dinner at 5ish and then the rest of us eat around 7 pm when he's in bed and I have more time to make something.

However, we do eat out a fair bit - maybe once a week so they do know how to behave at a table and dd being older has perfect table manners. I do correct her if she's not eating properly when we are out, however I've never really had to do that maybe I've just been lucky. I think it's because eating at a table out somewhere is a treat for the dc.

I would just go with the flow a bit and especially when they are so little it really isn't worth getting upset about.

thanks Fairylea for the dissenting view ;-) DS often has left over breakfast porridge reheated for dinner, and I do feel that mealtimes shouldn't be a battle or miserable for anyone involved. I remember my parents being very relaxed about lots of things, but I do remember often getting shouted at for elbows on the table, slumbing, licking my knife etc (although when I was a lot older than DS is now) but on the other hand, we ate together as a family every night and at weekends, and this is one of my fondest memories. I guess its the participating that counts, not the location and I do remember lots of TV dinners growing up.

I think the key seems to be try to avoid drama, either like you with few rules, or others who have just said ignore and don't get upset :-)

It sounds like he's just outgrown his high chair -- and fair enough, can't he just sit in a regular chair, perhaps on some extra cushions? It doesn't matter what he sits on after all, just that he sits