Grandparents Dog & Toddler

[Tillyboo]

My in-laws have a Labrador who has shown, so far, a slight intolerance for our 2.5 year old daughter. On the whole he has been Ok but we have had one occasion of lip curling & growling when dd got too close to his bed and the 2nd occasion was when dd was running round the garden and the dog got excited and we think he nipped at dd's clothes. It happened in a split second & fortunately husband was right next to dd & scooped her up. On both occasions,it was denied that the dog had growled or nipped.
The grandparents cannot see any danger & have so far refused to accept that the dog could possibly bite by saying 'He won't bite'.
He is a trained gundog so he is especially tuned in to a preys distress - a toddler squealing & running around could be confused with that & trigger an attack. We have explained our feelings that we are terrified of dd being bitten or attacked and so have not visited as we get so stressed about it. There is no way we are going to put our dd in any danger but the grandparents are visiting this week (with dog) & it'll be the first one since telling them our concerns.
Has anyone got any advice please.

Tell them that they want to make damn sure it doesn't bite, or you'll insist on having it put down. It worked on my mum and her hideous Jack Russell. All of a sudden, with the threat of something bad happening to something she cared about, it was accepted that dogs are unpredictable and by nature aggressive, so best to keep them out of the way.

Dog in the Garden
Develop an spontaneous allergy
I just don't get people who put animals before humans.

Tell them that if the dog leads you to believe for one second it will bite your child, you will kick it into next week, regardless of what they think it was doing!

(I know, I wouldn't do that to an innocent dog either, but let them think you will)

also with SWs allergy idea. I am allergic to all sorts of things

Ha!
Tell them if it farts you'll do the same and all

blimey. My Dad has a labrador that the kids are terrified of and if we stay he makes sure it is always in another room to them, and if we are outside it is inside etc Also dog not allowed here at all. As it is his parents can dh not just lay down the rules in your house - and if you all need to be in the garden tie the dog to a post and tell dd to keep to the other side.

Do they come far? Can you not tell them to leave the dog at home? I'll happily admit that I'm not that keen on dogs, but I tolerate friends (well behaved) ones, but I wouldn't visit or have visit one I thought might bite or nip. Do they know that the dog is the reason why you haven't visited> I think you need to put your foot down tbh, and tell them your concerns mean you are not willing to entertain their pet.

Grandparents have an hour and a half drive to get here so leaving dog at home wouldn't even be entertained.

Trouble is they are so keen for the dog & dd to be best buddies, they treat the dog like a 3rd child so are totally oblivious to any potential hazard.

Dh has told them exactly how we feel so if they still don't respect our wishes then they'll have to choose betwen the dog and seeing their only grand-daughter.
We are not budging on this one but the grand-parents are pretty formiddable and I can see trouble ahead - (as the song goes)

I am a dog lover and have had dogs all my life until dd came along so I know about dog's behaviour etc. and although this dog hasn't done anything serious (yet), I still don't trust it an inch.

If we visit other friends and family with dog(s), we ask for them to be kept in a seperate room/ away from children and the owners are totally understanding and happy to do this so why can't our dd's own grandparents

Why on earth can't they leave the dog at home if only an hour's drive? not keen on dogs at all and that's mostly down to bad experiences as a child with dogs jumping all over me and brother being bitten by a dog who just "loved children so much".

My parents have four dogs and I lost it with them one day after the old 'they won't bite' comment. Now dogs are shut away if they are getting over excited no questions. You have to be really firm over this and just say that the dog is not welcome and if they insist on bringing it it stays in the garden.

When my mother comes to stay, she leaves the dog in the car (with all the windows down) and he doesn't seem to mind at all.

In our case, although the risk of the dog biting is very, very small, he was a hunting dog, so we just don't take any chances.

The dog might nip your daughter as a warning and this could make her scared of dogs for the rest of her life.

There's a balance between getting young children used to and confident with dogs, and the risk of a bite (however small) causing a fear of dogs that they may never get over.

I love dogs, but I think people sometimes forget that they're not much different from wolves at heart and should never be completely trusted.

Put your foot down.

BIG problem - grandparents treating dog as 3rd child. Makes dogs territorial and jealous, and very likely to attack any possible threat to their top dog position.
I totally sympathise as my mother has the most vile Jack Russell which she adores and which seems to take precedence over my two children. On our last visit, this dog was being patted gently by DS1(5) when it lashed out with its claw and took out a small chunk of skin just below DS1's eyebrow.
The dog is now gated outside the garden whenever we visit and only allowed into the house when they are asleep upstairs.
It's just not worth the risk. Stand firm and lay down the law. Dogs and toddlers really don't mix.

God, I thought I'd posted this and not remembered!!!! I have fell out with my parents over this - they have a 10yr old jack russell, completely boisterous and untrained. They refused to train it as a puppy, it destroys any toy with a face on, yet will leave ones without faces (!). What would it do to my kids?????
Please, do NOT let your in laws bully you on this. If they won't keep it out of the way or leave it at home, refuse to go round or have them visit. Their problem not yours. I used to have dogs and couldn't understand people's fears until I had kids - I can now!! Tell them to leave the dog in car or at home or don't bother coming. If they have no respect for you or your kids safety, they don't deserve to see them. DP is of the same opinion as me - he was bitten as a kid, so was I. Obviously your problem is defintitely more serious as the dog has actually growled and nipped.

This is what we had to go through with selfish parents:

When ds was born, I said I don't want the dog near him. I got the "oh he's all right, won't hurt a fly, loves kids only wants to "sniff" and lick etc. I flipped, cos I knew the dog runs at kids in the park and street (dad lets it off lead), "licks them all over" and barks at kids squealing. They said they will put the dog in another room but told me I was wrong as ds would have to "learn". When we visited for the first time, my parents insisted the dog had to "sniff" to get used to ds, I insisted it stay on a lead if it stayed in the room. I got the patronising remarks, and no respect for my wishes. It was strained every time we went, dog wanted ds's food, trying to lick him and jump on him. Also parents encouraged dog to go for his toys and asked if we had any old ones he could rip up - therefore associating even more with "violence" so to speak. On one occasion, ds made a noise, the dog barked and lunged at him. DS was terrified - he was about 8 mths old if that. We walked out and don't go there anymore. We have been to drop off xmas/birthday presents at the door, but I won't go in as I don't like the dog anyway, and the kids stay in the car. DS is 4 and DD is 2 - she has never been near it and it will stay that way. I have told them that until they show respect for our wishes, tough. We get sly remarks on every visit to our house "oh, we could do xyz, but YOU won't cos of the dog. It's YOUR fault ds is scared, I'VE made him like that. Don't think so, "mother".
My mother constantly whinges about dog hair, yapping when left, kennel costs, walking it etc - don't know why the hell she had it!! She's missing out, not us. MIL on other hand won't allow the eldest cat in when kids are there as she has total respect for kids safety and it is a psycho cat sometimes!
My friend has a puppy and ds was fine when it was really tiny - as soon as it got to jack russell size, he freaked and won't go near it now. He shakes and clings to me if we have to pass one and will go in the road / hedge to avoid them. He's not too bad near big ones, he just clings and says it will "eat him". DD is OK near dogs, so I don't think I am to blame for DS somehow - my parents are.
Please don't let your inlaws cause the same problems for you and your dd, if it causes trouble, so what?? You are protecting your child, YOU are not the "baddie".
We went to a friend from schools house party the other week and had to leave after half an hour because of dogs roaming round the house. They did try and keep the dogs out of the way, when we said ds was scared but they were still in the same room and I didn't feel I could say anything in someone else's house, without causing a scene or ruining the party etc. Ds was so upset, and I didn't want to say "oy, if I knew your dogs would be in here with the kids we wouldn't have come". I have no problem whatsoever with telling my parents to get theirs out of my sight!!

Wow, Charlene1 sounds like you went through it. What a shame your folks can't understand, and what a price to pay for not doing so i.e. missing out on their grand-children!

I felt the same as you about not appreciating how parents with kids could flip over a dog as I had always owned dogs but now I have a dd it changes your perspective and sends your protective streak soaring through the roof.

My dh & I have sat on many occasions talking about the situation and in the end we say 'You know what, why the hell are we trying to justify why WE don't want the dog around our daughter. It's madness. The plain fact is, it is our wish & our right as parents to protect our child. End of .... '

I was attacked when I was about the same age as dd. It was totally unprovoked in my own garden by a stray dog and I still carry facial scars to this day. Amazingly it didn't put me off dogs and I don't think that even knowing this my in-laws appreciate our concerns.

Thanks for all the responses. Makes me feel a whole lot better, it just reinforces that we are right.

Let us know how you get on!!

Wow. Good luck Tillyboo. Although I have 2 labs (good as gold and gentle as could be) I still wouldn't let them join in games with a toddler. Dogs jumping for toys can easily misjudge things and grab hands by accident. You MUST make your feelings clear. Does DH support your views, if he does get him to talk to them about it.

My MIL has a completely untrained, elderly Staffie. It's never been aggressive to the kids but is boisterous & LICKS, ugh. I'm a bit allergic to animal saliva, causes me to come out in huge red welts.

So I've given MIL to understand that I won't/can't be in the same room as the dog, & prefer that it is shut downstairs (big, light cellar where it sleeps) when ds is around.

She thinks I'm over-fussy (so does dh, the dog was his as a teenager & he's very fond of it). However, she does respect my wishes, & I'm very fond of her (if not her ghastly mutt!) so we agree to differ.

Agree with other posters - you need to stick to your guns.

we had dog before we had dd and were very worried about jealousy etc. dog has been ok - so far - but we never leave the two of them together and have strict rules about what sort of toys the dog has (nothing that squeaks, nothing that looks like dd's toys) and are much stricter about the dog being bottom of the pack.
i also say stick to your guns.
if your pil treat the dog as a child that is trouble - it'll think it is equal or pack superior to any children and react accordingly (eg when your dd got too close to dog bed it growled).

if your pil insist on bringing dog into your home then surely you can insist it must be on a lead and under control at all times.

you can also do things our trainer advised us to do. sit in the dog's bed - really! - to let the dog know you are the pack leader and can go where you like. the dog is your inferior and is not allowed on your bed. this is very important to dogs.
never let dog through a doorway first. always make it wait and let you and dd through first (it'll be on a lead so this is easy!) don't let it lie in walkways either - you know how dogs always lie in the weay so you have to walk round them? that's no accident. it's about controling space and who gets to control the space. make it lie on a bed or tethered at your pil feet.
never let the dog eat before you do. pack leaders eat first, the others get the scraps. feed the dog when you stack the dishwasher in the evening or after breakfast, whatever time of day it's fed.
and if you thing your pil are likely to drop the lead from time to time have either a plant spray set to jet spray or a water pistol handy - if the dog growls at your dd squirt it - it won't hurt or harm the dog but it won't like it. aim for the face but avoid the eyes. it works a treat. similar thing is to put something noisy - dried beans or something - in an empty drinks can and tape up the hole. if dog does something you dont' like, drop the can, the noise,like the water spray will startle it and stop if doing what you don't want it to do. if you're good at doing this the dog won't see you making the water/noise but will come to associate something unpleasant with growling at your dd and stop doing it.
also, praise the dog when it behaves well round your dd. positive reinforcement works!
sorry this is long but if you have to share space with the dog at least you can enforce some house rules. good luck!

Hi my advice is please stick to your guns on this one as this is a subject very important to me. Don't want to alarm you but last summer while on holiday visiting my Grandad my 20 month DS was bitten on the face by my his dog. This was a dog who'd previously shown no agression, indeed was almost protective of small children. He is however getting on and had a sore paw which my wee boy touched, thus causing reactionary defence snap. The dog sort of snapped then walked away however my wee boy had to spend 3 nights in Aberdeen sick kids, get intravenos antibiotics(not pleasent) and received 9 external stitches and 3 internal (bite had gone right through cheek). He had to have a general both for insertion and removal. Luckly although he has some scaring it's not too bad as it was an excellent plastics team who fixed him up. As for the dog, the police were happy not to put him down due to previous nature, However when we visit my grandfather he puts the dog in kennels and if we lived closer and could visit for day he'd of got rid (his words) At the end of the day we were very lucky but it shows you dogs can't be trusted no matter how good they appear. Maddingly I have friend who says "my mums dog is a big softy would never do that" I bloody hope not.
Funny thing is my DS always asks for the doggy, was obviously too young to remember.
Good luck on this.

I would agree, we had similar situation with inlaws springer spaniel which showed warning signs of being irritable with children, father in law wouldnt hear of it, kept getting child and dog up close to make friends then one day dog makes unprovoked attack biting thru child's cheek. in laws did immeadiately have dog put down to be fair but could have been completely avoided if dog had been treated as lowest of pack from start. we have 2 dogs and 4 children and you can never ever trust any dog completely, especially with toddlers who can be quite thretening to a dog. dont compromise your child's safety

dp's dad was like this too, wouldn't admit that the dog (which is even known for nipping people and getting aggressive ) could possibly be a danger to my dd who was a baby at the time, even though he'd jumped up and tried to nip her toes a couple of times when i'd been holding her.

he was sitting in the garden with dd one day holding a ball and teasing the dog with it, dp was there and tried to take dd but just got the usual 'don't be silly Tiger won't touch her'. cue dd getting a horrible scratch down her leg from his filthy claws and being half frightened to death she was only 7 months old and besides the obvious danger i didn't want her to develop a fear of dogs beacuse of this crap so dp and i got nasty.... if the dog was in the room, dd wasn't, simple as that... if they couldn't remove the dog from her presence we'd just take her and go.

so far it's working... dp's dad adores playing with dd so the threat of not seeing her means he's become very good at ensuring Tiger is n't allowed anywhere near her and dp is pissed off enough that he enforces the taking her out of the room if Tiger is there so it's not just me being a bitch in their eyes.

Disaster, disaster, disaster !!!!
Visit turned into one huge row. Dh even got physically attacked by brother (who lives with dh's parents and who also cannot see/ accept any danger from dog).
We had a terrible evening but it just reinforced our view & belief that the dog is to be kept away from dd.
If In-laws want to visit they can without dog (and brother). If they want to see dd that's the deal.
Can't go into detail but it was a very, very upsetting evening, horrible things were said to us & won't forgive behaviour of bil. Called me an f'ing bitch (having had too much beverage) & punched my husband twice after verbally abusing him. Fortunately dd was fast asleep in bed well away from everything

Tillyboo

How terrible Tillyboo.

Oh, how ghastly for you. I'm actually quite shocked by the comment by your bil. I can't imagine my dp's brother calling me that and if he did I think dp would never want us to see him again. God, some families are just dreadful.