please help - re obnoxious behaviour esp bedtime

[poopooheadwillyfatface]

At the moment they are next to bloody feral and I am totally utterly fed up. Like ready to lock myself in the bathroom and scream kind of fed up.

I need a strategy
Rules
Consequences.

Proper rules, proper consequences.

Just 5, and 6.9yo. They share a room (not changeable) and piss about for hours at bedtime. I can't stand it any more.

Both persistently rude, un cooperative, downright disobedient at the moment. Eldest is an angel at school, youngest is in reception and not an angel but not awful at school either.

Help me out - what rules do you have. And consequences - I prefer 'natural consequences' if possible but right now I will consider chopping off one limb per day until they will fit in the border of the garden to be frank.

They don't currently get pocket money. Don't have set screen time either. No consoles they use regularly. I'm considering giving them stuff just so I can confiscate it and that seems stupid but I need ideas.

Can you stagger bedtime? Younger one first? Then the older one? I do this when I can but my older small one (I have four) tends to want to go to sleep. The 6 year old is a nightmare so I introduced stuff like dinner at 5, supper at 7 so that there was no 'I'm hungry' stuff.

we've tried staggered bedtimes before and it didn't really work for us.
part of the problem is that DH works nights, leaves about 7.35pm so I can't really start baths and stories til then. Plus I do bedtime every night.

I have had a chat with them this morning about some agreed rules.

They want yellow and red cards and timeout like school
we have talked about a pasta jar for good behaviour as I want to keep things more positive rather than all negative.
Treats to be specific.

argh its like being at work setting them SMART targets

still grasping desperately for more ideas

my priorities are less fucking about at bedtime and minimal screaming and whinging about nothing.
Specific rule about no poo songs at the tea table

Maybe bedtime is too late hence the messing about. Can you get them ready earlier and they're in bed when your DH leaves and he gives then a kiss then it's goodnight?

Can DH read them a story before he goes ? Then once he has gone, it is into bed and lights out ?

rofl at the idea of DH doing a story before he goes to work

no. That won't happen.

We've only got one bathroom/toilet hence why they can't get ready for bed until he's gone
I don't mind them not settling til 830-9. They don't get up stupidly early.
I just need to significantly shrink the period between stories and shutting up/getting to sleep. They are tired and grumpy. and so am I.

What are you trying to fit in after your Dh leaves?

Could you arrange your schedule so that they can be in pj's, have had a story read and only need a wee & teethbrushing, then straight to bed?

Oops, just seen your post where you mention baths - could this be swapped for a quick morning bath or morning shower? Could you bath them less often? Bath when they get home from school/activities before your Dh needs to use bathroom.

I don't understand why you can't do bed before your husband leaves, but anyway

My routine with dd aged 6 and ds aged 3
Watch bedtime story in cbeebies, on iplayer if we miss it. Teeth, jarmies, up to bed. Story for ds, then story for dd in bed. Song to both. Lights out I go downstairs, they can come down if they need the loo, but no other reason. If they get up they get put back to bed, I don't engage in arguments. I did the supernanny back to bed with both of them. One night I put dd back over thirty times, it was hard but it cracked them in three days. I have also done sticker chart for good going to bed. I find an achieve able reward gained over a set period works, so 12 good nights in two weeks to get whatever plastic tat they want at the moment. You could try a joint target, hoping they encourage each other to behave.

We do baths in the morning at weekends and only once or twice mid week.

wonderstuff, that's the kind of thing I'm thinking about.
concrete achievable targets with set rewards. They don't have enough incentive to try at the moment I think.
We don't bath every night, roughly Sunday Tuesday Thursday most weeks but they do settle a bit better with a bath thrown in.

Can you eldest read?

I would put younger one to bed in their bedroom and the older one gets to read to himself in your bed for half an hour. Hopefully younget one is then asleep and you pop older one into bed.

I think get younger one ready before dh goes out. Surely dh can change his getting ready schedule to fit around that to benefit everyone?

How did it go tonight?

they had a bath and story.
didn't mess around too badly but didn't stop chatting until gone 1030.
just can't make them stop talking
but as long as they aren't breaking things or leathering each other it could be worse

Are they not shattered in the morning? It's a tough one, I think I'd try a reward chart for being quiet, do they have a clock, could they have 5 mins chatter then a point for keeping quiet?