HELP! Ongoing sleep issues tipping me over the edge.

[monalisa28]

My daughter is about to turn 3 next month and she's still keeping me up at night and generally driving me nuts. She has always woken during the night and asked for milk. Like an idiot I indulged her, and now I don't know how to go about phasing it out. I have another baby now so when things kick off during the night my first concern is 'Christ! She's going to wake the baby. Give her whatever she wants'. I give her a sippy cup of milk and a cuddle and off she goes back to sleep. This can happen twice during the night. I could cope with that, but she also rises at about 4.30am and screams till I get up with her and go downstairs. This disturbed sleep and the early mornings makes her really tired and grumpy. She morphs from a beautiful little angel in to the devil by about 10.30am and resists napping for the remainder of the day until it's far too late. She wants to sleep on the sofa at about 4pm when I'm thinking about dinner, baths and bed for her at 6pm. She used to go to bed at 7pm but I brought it forward in light of her being so tired and mardy all the time.
On the rare occasion that I can get her to nap just after lunch she takes 2 hours (she's impossible to wake up) and then will not sleep at bedtime till about 10pm!
I'm really at a loss as to what to do so any help would be appreciated. The tired/naughty behaviour is really a recent development and I have been trying to think what it coincides with. She has a new baby brother but she seems overjoyed about this and there's no evidence she feels jealous at all. I used to really limit her telly viewing until recently when I felt she was becoming obsessed with tv so I let her have carte blanche in the hope she would naturally lose interest. It has crossed my mind that she's being overstimulated by television now. Maybe that's a bit mad, but I'm wracking my brains. Please help, if you can. TIA. x

I sympathise I now have three non sleeping children and it's killing me. A couple of things- I wouldn't worry about the telly, it's probably just a sign she's too tired rather than causing her to be too tired. My elder was the same and is no longer so bothered. She stopped once her talking was good enough for role play, which is all she's interested in.
Then the milk thing, water it down gradually? Or just stop, but that doesn't mean she won't wake, just means you don't have to go downstairs to get it.

The biggest thing that stands out though- where is your DP in all of this. I used to do all the night wakings and early mornings cos I was on mat leave and he was working, then because it was easier and quicker etc etc. After nearly losing the plot (really truly, off sick from work, counselling for depression etc) he now has stepped up. While I'm doing night feeds he does all the mornings, and until he feels as shit and as knackered as me, I get the lie ins!

There will be loads of advice about things to try. IMO coping strategies for you will work best. Good luck. Sleep deprivation is a form of torture

I think there are 2 different issues.

The milk in the night I would just stop. Tell her in advance, there will be no milk in the night as it is really bad for her teeth and she should be asleep because children grow in their sleep and need lots of it (or other reasons you may come up with).

Then let her sceam for it, even if she wakes the baby, don't give in. Tell her you will cuddle her in the morning and all day, just not in the middle of the night when you should all be asleep.

Second issue is the early waking (it would honestly do me in). I would tackle this gradually. Keep her up half an hour later if possible every day, until she is somewhere around 7.30 - 8ish.

Hopefully she will develop good sleeping habits, because it is as you say, she needs sleep and is cranky because she doesn't get enough.

I have a small dd (5) who needs astonishingly little sleep and is generally very hard to tire out. She will sleep from 9pm until 6.30-7 and has done since she was 2. Any attempt to get her to sleep earlier resulted in her waking up before 6. We've given up but she is very cheerful all day and not tired.

Thanks so much for your responses. Last night I just ended up in bed by 10pm and was woken at 10.40pm, 11.30pm, 1.30am and so on. She got me up for the day at 5am and was a nightmare until midday when she crashed on the sofa and slept for 2 hours. Now she's a joy and a pleasure because she's had some kip, but at bedtime she won't sleep and the whole saga will begin again!
My husband can't really be of much help as he's a night worker and is useless at waking up anyway. A concorde taking off outside the bedroom window wouldn't stir him, but he does get up with our daughter in the mornings when he has had a night off which gives me an extra couple of hours.
I'm stopping the milk - we talked today after her nap about no more milk in the bedroom and she agreed to throw her bedtime sippy cup in the bin. So if she screams tonight it's tough.
I guess the crux of the problem lies with her resistance to have a nap. If I could get her to nap for an hour or so just after lunch she would be so much more pleasant, and for that I'd put up with the 4.30am starts. Any ideas on how to get her to nap?

take her for a walk in pushchair or drive in a car to nap?

or I trick DS into a nap in his room- he and his younger sister share a room, which has double blackout blinds so very dark. I get him to lie next to me on his bed while i feed DD and tell him to keep me company while I nap DD then promise him we'll sneak out once she's asleep (making a game of it). If he's tired, he'll fall asleep within ten minutes.

does she have decent blackout blinds? also worth making sure her room is cool (17/18C) with sufficient layers (PJs plus vest and 4 tog duvet is enough for DS) and this might help her sleep better. I also stick a blanket over the top on my way up to bed.

have you ruled out medical issues like ear problems, breathing problems or reflux? Sounds silly but you can still have this problem in toddlers. If she snores then she could have mild apnoea. if she's mildly intolerant to dairy it can upset her eg mild tummy issues etc.

I would drop the nap altogether. Lots of 3 year olds don't have naps, there's no point having a battle about it. Is she starting nursery soon? Maybe a busy routine might help her go to bed earlier/ sleep longer at night.

I'm glad your DP is helping out when he can.

Have you heard of Gro clocks or similar:

www.mothercare.com/Gro-Clock/303581,default,pd.html?CAWELAID=1642305726&cm_mmc=Google--Nursery--PLA+-+Nursery-_-PLA+-+Nursery+-+PLA&gclid=CJ7g85O2x7sCFWmWtAod_H8AoQ

My son is only 18 months so I haven't tried one yet.. but I live in hope (if this has been tried and failed then feel free to burst my bubble!).

Definitely drop the nap. let her push on through for a few days without it and pt her bed time a touch earlier then usual. Her wake time should get later but give it two weeks to settle. Well done on stopping the night milk, also stick to that and within two weeks I think her night wakes will cease also.

Milk at night is the main problem I reckon, but I would definately drop the nap. And get her as much fresh air and running around as possible in the late afternoon if you can (although not always easy in the winter months).

She doesn't need the milk but is using it for comfort so it might be a hard habit to stop but it'll be much better for her to not be waking in the night.

I really, really sympathise - I experienced terrible sleep deprivation with my two girls and it was pretty hideous.

We replaced the milk we a soppy cup of water and said you can help yourself when you like but don't call us to come and help you. Seems to have worked. How about some sort of reward chart with stickers if she stays in bed all night.

Sippy cup

How's it going? Sounds hellish and tbh most 3 year olds don't need to nap during the day and instead get their 10-12 hours at night time.