5 week old won't sleep

[gem149]

I have a 5 week old lo and am just about at breaking point. We had a very tricky start as feeding wasn't going that well...he was having very frequent feeds (often one right after the other) and gaining very little weight. During the night he would feed non stop for up to 5 hours...lots and lots of comfort sucking so we have now introduced a dummy and I try to make sure there is no less than 2.5hrs between feeds. Feeding is better and he is gaining weight. However, getting him to sleep is a nightmare. He hasn't been sleeping all that much during the day and at night he just won't sleep after night feeds. Last night he slept from maybe half 8 until 11.15pm then after being fed he didn't go back to sleep until 3.30am, then he woke again at 4.45am. I get up and bounce on a Swiss ball, stroke his nose, rock him,shhh him and these all calm him down until he seems to be asleep but the moment I move he wakes up. All I'm doing is moving back to the bed, not even attempting to lay him down in the co sleeper cot which he's never slept in (would love him to sleep in it but feeding/sleep has always been such an issue I'm just glad he sleeps, regardless of where he is). When he was feeding straight for up to 5 hrs during the night the same happened.. He'd fall asleep then wake up again after a couple of minutes. I'm exhausted and struggling to see the light at the end of the tunnel... Advice greatly appreciated.

gem I is he sleeping whilst you hold him but just not going down for you? If so, this is pretty normal. Have you tried feeding him lying down?

If you've had problems with feeding, has he ever been checked for tongue tie?

If he's not sleeping much in the day will he sleep in your arms or a sling/pram/car?

He's still very young. It will get lots better.

I found with my baby (through much trial and error) it was best to hold him for 15 to 20 minutes after he fell asleep before I attempted put him down - any sooner and he wasn't yet in a deep enough sleep, any longer and he seemed to be more easily disturbed by the risky transfer-to-bed stage. Although even doing that was it far from guaranteed that he'd stay asleep.

A sling is a good idea - seemed to help settle our baby quicker and better than being in arms even. I think because he was quite squished in there, so the arms couldn't flail. Plus it means you at least have the freedom to move around, even if you can't sleep yourself with it on. We had a wallaboo sling, but there are loads of similar ones out there.

White noise was also a definite help - we had a CD called 'womb to world', but again there are lots of similar ones out there. Our baby is 8 months and even now I find the CD helpful if he's restless for any reason.

Would he sleep in a rocking/bouncing chair or mechanised swing? It work with my dd during the day when, because of toddler ds, I couldn't sit holding her or carry her around with me for long periods of time.

If he doesn't want to be laid flat have you though about putting him to sleep on his side/front? I know this is not recommend and lots of people don't like the idea due to SIDS concerns but sometimes my dd would only sleep on her front.

I'd also suggest having him tested for reflux: again, my dd had that and laying flat on her back caused her much discomfort because of the stomach acid coming up into her oesophagus. Once her reflux was treated she was much better. Perhaps keep him in a more upright position for 10-20 mins after feeding and winding to help the milk/stomach acids stay down.

When transferring him from your arms to the bed/cot/basket, keep him wrapped up snugly in a blanket and gently place him in a pre-warmed bed: maybe he's noticing the change in pressure and temperature which might be waking him up?

He will fall asleep while I'm holding him but just wake up again after a few minutes. I am not even attempting to put him down as I'm happy for him to sleep on top of me or in my arms, just so long as he sleeps.Right now if we would just sleep between feeds I'd be happy, laying him down can come later. It sounds very like he might have a sore throat right now which I guess won't be helping. We also have white noise playing in our room but not sure how much effect it has on him.

Part of me is stressing that by 5 weeks things should be getting easier and I should be enjoying him more but it's just not happening.

Tongue tie was suggested as cause of feeding issues but it turned out we had thrush and that seems to have cleared.

I have a ring sling and stretchy wrap which he will sleep in and we've just borrowed a swing as well.

Ok, he is very overtired, that is why he drops off but then wakes up instantly. It's as if they pump in lots of adrenaline to make up for the lack of sleep, which means they are totally wired and it's a lot harder to get them to fall/stay asleep.

Only way to cure overtiredness is to get more sleep into him. I did this with DD by lots of looong pram walks in the day (had to keep moving or she would wake up). After a few days of this she got less overtired and it all got a lot easier. A blackout shade over the pram helped. White noise also helps some babies.

Has your DS been properly checked for tongue tie? As it could still be tongue tie even if you also had thrush.

PS 5 weeks is a tricky stage as that is when they stop being such sleepy newborns, this is often when overtiredness sets in.

Mine was this bad, he had silent reflux. Your mentioned your DS has a sore throat. Could be sr related as acid burns their throats.

Yes, you're right, if he's waking on you even, you just need to get him to sleep as long as possible through any means possible.

He does sound over-tired. I found with my baby anything more than 2 hours awake and then the sleep was really hard to come by. And even within the 2 hour slot sleep wasn't that easy for him.

As Minipie says - lots of pram pushing, sling round the house, car rides. Exhausting for you too i'm afraid, but it does get a lot easier.

Try a baby swing or bjorn baby bouncer. The bouncer is pricey, but I bounced my first and now my second to sleep every day in it. And no - no long term sleep associations were made :)

Thank you so much everyone for the help and advice. Thought we were in for another night of the same as we got off to a rocky start with the same thing of falling asleep then waking up again. However he then slept from 2am until 6am and from 7am until 9.30am. Not going to get too excited yet though. I think overtiredness may well be the issue... Is it true then that at this stage the more they sleep in the day, the better they sleep at night?

Yes, more he sleeps the better he will sleep.

I remember when DS was six weeks (almost exactly two years ago) thinking how hard it all was. I found that things got better when he was about twelve weeks as he started to sleep just that wee bit better abd he was reacting to me more by then

Things I found useful was swaddling and using a fleece blanket as a second bottom sheet, much much warmer than cotton sheets

Loved my sling and used it loads until he got too heavy

We've had similar issues here gem, from about 5/6 weeks until 8 I couldn't get a handle on it... Turns out ds needs way more sleep than I realised. We'd been letting him set his schedule whilst being mindful of over stimulation and much needed sleep, but only now I've been reading up is it obv he needs to sleep a lot. 2 hours in every 3 1/2, which was a surprise to me.

Main factor that's helped here is making the house quiet, dimly lit, and then just rocking with him. It feels a bit revelatory, because now he just goes to sleep (she says 2 days in).

Share your thoughts re the bedside crib too - only just got him in it!

Does sound quite normal I am afraid. If you have checked for tongue tie and that is getting enough milk if bf then unfortunately that is just what five week olds do, they don't sleep! It is a killer! Be glad it's not twins!

Yes, as my own mum says, a baby that sleeps is a baby that sleeps. As pp have already said, if you manage to get your baby to have decent daytime naps he should sleep better at night. You probably already do but watch for the signs of tiredness: yawning, staring, eye-rubbing and ear-pulling and try to put him to sleep as soon as you notice them - whether that be in a sling, a pram, a rocking chair, a swing or a cot - in order to avoid overtiredness and his nighttime sleep should improve.

Thanks for all further comments. Have managed to get him to have a reasonable nap between all feeds so far today so will see how that impacts on tonight. The sling is a godsend... Next step is to see if he will stay asleep if I transfer him from sling to basket.

Ah good so glad you are making progress. DD hated the sling which is why I used the pram but others swear by it. personally I wouldn't try transfer to basket till he's had several days of good naps and you can be sure he's caught up sleep.

Well unfortunately a day of lots of naps had no impact on last night... He had 2 two hour blocks of sleep between 10pm and 7am ..one of those blocks was in the sling. Perhaps this is just normal and I need to accept it. I think I'm frustrated because we did have a couple of nights last week where he fed, we bounced on the ball for a short time and woke up for his next feed. Health Visitor advice is to just put him down if he's fed and burped but I can't leave him to cry.

Well unfortunately a day of lots of naps had no impact on last night... He had 2 two hour blocks of sleep between 10pm and 7am ..one of those blocks was in the sling. Perhaps this is just normal and I need to accept it. I think I'm frustrated because we did have a couple of nights last week where he fed, we bounced on the ball for a short time and woke up for his next feed. Health Visitor advice is to just put him down if he's fed and burped but I can't leave him to cry.

Well unfortunately a day of lots of naps had no impact on last night... He had 2 two hour blocks of sleep between 10pm and 7am ..one of those blocks was in the sling. Perhaps this is just normal and I need to accept it. I think I'm frustrated because we did have a couple of nights last week where he fed, we bounced on the ball for a short time and woke up for his next feed. Health Visitor advice is to just put him down if he's fed and burped but I can't leave him to cry.

Well unfortunately a day of lots of naps had no impact on last night... He had 2 two hour blocks of sleep between 10pm and 7am ..one of those blocks was in the sling. Perhaps this is just normal and I need to accept it. I think I'm frustrated because we did have a couple of nights last week where he fed, we bounced on the ball for a short time and woke up for his next feed. Health Visitor advice is to just put him down if he's fed and burped but I can't leave him to cry.

Well unfortunately a day of lots of naps had no impact on last night... He had 2 two hour blocks of sleep between 10pm and 7am ..one of those blocks was in the sling. Perhaps this is just normal and I need to accept it. I think I'm frustrated because we did have a couple of nights last week where he fed, we bounced on the ball for a short time and woke up for his next feed. Health Visitor advice is to just put him down if he's fed and burped but I can't leave him to cry.

Oh dear, so sorry to hear that. It's not "normal" no, but it does happen quite frequently.

No you can't leave him to cry at 5 weeks old and especially not if he may be overtired and so unable to sleep anyway. HV is barking if that's what she's suggesting.

Do persist with the lots of naps, it will help with the overtiredness eventually and even if there is something else going on as well, extra sleep will definitely not hurt.

Again, has he been checked for tongue tie? I wasn't sure from what you said earlier. If he has, who checked (as HVs are often wrong).

The symptoms of tongue tie (at least in our case) were: baby finds it hard to maintain latch, keeps slipping off; feeding is not calm but a bit frantic; flattened nipples sometimes after feeds; sore nipples (not all the time though, only at growth spurts); windy baby (lots of farts and struggles to fart); baby wakes up a lot and would only sleep upright on our chests or in a moving pram; baby clamps down when feeding.

Have just got him to sleep in the sling as he'd only had a very short nap in the car since 11ish. Tongue tie had been considered but then ruled out when they realised he had thrush. Doctor and breastfeeding support worker had a look for anterior tongue tie but know you can get posterior tongue tie? Hmmm, may still be worth getting checked out. Also wondering about reflux as he's been a little sicky, or wind as he is sometimes very unsettled after a feed..when I prop him up to wind him he will cry and headbutt me and straighten his legs right out...very hard to settle...

Yes posterior TT is harder to spot but still v common. Def worth getting checked out. the tricky bit is finding someone qualified to spot them. do you have £ for a visit from a private lactation consultant (easiest option)? If not then see if your local BF cafe has a bf counsellor coming in who might be qualified to have a look. Or GP may be able to refer you to a TT clinic at a local hospital.

Tongue ties babies (incl DD) often seem to have reflux and can be misdiagnosed as having it, basically all the air they swallow makes milk/stomach acid come up but if the tt is fixed then it goes away.

Hi, I've just posted to another Mum here, please see the link about awake times

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/sleep/1942363-Overtired-but-wont-sleep?