At end of my tether with dd2's tantrums, long rant, sorry [sad]

[Ilovemydogandmydoglovesme]

She's 4.5 and this is her first term at school and I just think she's utterly knackered. We pretty much have a full on tantrum nearly every day after school and I've just lost my temper with her and smacked her. I now feel really awful that I've done that but I just saw red. I can't believe it.

I sent her to her room when we got home from school, which in itself was for an appalling tantrum leaving school. She has to realise that she simply can't behave like that. I told her when she was quiet I'd come and speak to her and if she said sorry she could come down for her tea. She proceeded to scream and wail even more. I kept telling her to be quiet and she could come down but the screaming got louder. I went up to see her, she screamed in my face and I smacked her on her bottom.

I left her to it and shut the door. Trouble is I don't want to go and apologise. I just feel as though I'm utterly sick to death of her, her tantrums, pussy-footing around her so as not to set her off, giving in. It's like walking on eggshells with her. She's four ffs. If I can't handle her now I stand no chance when she's older. What sort of precedent is this setting her? Dd1 was a dream compared to this child. She's just done a brilliant turn in her school play, her teacher was nearly in tears she was so good, and now I've totally spoiled the evening by not being able to deal with her sister yet again.

I know I need to apologise but right now I can't stand the sight of her. I said on a thread the other day about how she's bloody hard work compared to dd1 and how it's an awful feeling to know that you don't like your own child. It's true. I don't like her. I love her, she's my child, but if she were someone else's I'd think 'you precocious little brat'.

It's either one end of the scale or the other with her. She'll have a tantrum if I'm not there, she'll get upset and no-one but me will do, and then the next minute she's screaming at me. She wears me out.

Dh has gone to check on her and she's asleep. He wasn't here when it happened, unfortunately, or he might have stopped me charging up there.

God I feel awful. Poor dd2 being stuck with a mum like me.

Huge sympathy. My 5yo DD is exactly the same and has been a complete *** (and I know that's an awful thing to say about a 5yo) this week.

She's exhausted.

I'm exhausted.

Do you take a snack and drink to give her the minute she comes out of school?

They are all absolutely exhausted IMO. It has been a long term, and what with Nativity plays and carol concerts, end of term tests and what have you, everyone is stressed out.

My 15 year old has just come in looking like death warmed up. she is absolutely shattered and there is still a week to go.

Do you take a snack and drink to give her the minute she comes out of school?

Was just going to write this, hand her a packet of crisps or some fruit the minute she comes out and be positive. You aren't a bad mum at all, it's HARD.

I am a bad mum, I really smacked her, with venom, but it's kind of you to say so. I don't want my children to think physical violence is normal. Or being afraid that your parent might hurt you.

I grew up with a father with a bit of a drink problem and once saw him take a belt to my brother. I don't drink, by the way, but it's an awful sight to see your brother crying in fear and your father deliberately hurting him. I don't want to be like that but by god she pushes my buttons.

Perhaps a snack after school might be a good idea.

I have a 4yo dd too and share your pain. It's exhausting. And what you say about her doing this more for you is so key - you are the most important person to her so she wants your attention more than anyone else's.

My older ds has ASD (high functioning) and we did some behavioural intervention to help him - which I now try when I remember to use the basic principle with dd. It's basically supernanny stuff - behaviour can be influenced and shaped by how we respond to it. If you respond to behaviour it is more likely to happen again, whether 'good' or 'bad' (hate using those words for children but hope ykwim). Whenever you respond it reinforces the behaviour - whether you respond positively or negatively. Even the telling-off, nos, etc will increase the likelihood of the behaviour happening again.

So the basics are ignore the 'bad' and reward the 'good'. This means totally ignoring all 'inappropriate' behaviour unless it's hurtful or destructive. If it's wailing, screaming, flailing, throwing, etc ignore ignore ignore. Let her wail it out, no harm will come to her. When a tantrum happens wait till it's completely over even if it takes an hour. When completely over pretend nothing happened and carry on as normal. The message you want to send is that when she uses this form of communication it won't get her what she wants (which is most likely to be your attention).

When she's behaving 'appropriately' praise, praise praise or give an appropriate reward (even a cuddle will work). We still use 'tick charts' with both dd and ds - 10 ticks over the course of the day gets them a treat.

It is really really hard to maintain this and be consistent but honestly it will work. The hardest part, other than both you and dh keeping this consistent, is how hard it is to ignore screaming etc. Our initial instinct is always to quell the noise etc (how often do you see parents with toddlers screaming for something, their parents say no, the screaming escalates then the parents say 'oh go on' if it will shut you up) but long term this reinforces the behaviour hpappening again as she knows it'll get a reaction, so will keep on doing it. It does get easier to ignore this stuff - one thing I still do is pretend that there's someone there watching me - this really helps to take me out the immediate heat of the situation and look objectively, which does calm me down. Even just saying to yourself 'la la la I can't hear you'!

The other thing which is so important if you try this route, is to remember to always reward/praise the good behaviour - again it's natural often just to rub along when things are going smoothly, but the more you praise the good stuff the more she'll want to get this lovely affection and attention from you.

You're right, you cannot be scared of 'setting her off' - you are the parent, she is the child. It doesn't mean ruling with a rod of iron, it just means fair but firm boundaries about what is and isn't acceptable behaviour. (Sorry really do sound like supernanny )

Honestly it is not your parenting (if it was, dd1 would be the same wouldn't she). You're not a bad mum. Some children are just more, um, demanding You'd think my ds with ASD would be 'harder' but he is an absolute dream behaviourally. My dd otoh has reduced me to tears and despair.

Now, must go and practice what I preach...

She's probably tired and hungry, I know I can be awful with that combo. Plan for next time, don't dwell. You are different from your father in that you know what you did was wrong and you don't want to do it again.

So the basics are ignore the 'bad' and reward the 'good'.

^This. I know this. I did this when dog training and it is exactly^ the same with children! I just can't remember to do it!

We walk home from school and the lane has no path so we're walking along with all the school traffic. When she throws a tantrum I have to react. That can't be helped. I can definitely try it at home though.

I still feeling awful about smacking her. I think I take her bad behaviour personally, and feel like I've let her down with my reaction.

Thank god I have one easy child. I don't know how others cope.

I feel so guilty about the smacking.

I keep replaying it over and over in my mind. I can't remember the exact moment of seeing red. I know that I smacked her quite hard, possibly twice, and that as I stomped off down the stairs I could hear her sobbing 'ow ow ow ow' to herself.

I keep hearing the ow ow ow in my head. I keep imagining her sobbing to herself, in pain and frightened of mummy. It makes me want to cry.

She's been fine since. She even said to me 'mummy when I was naughty you smacked me and it hurt' really matter-of-factly which nearly reduced me to tears. Like it was a normal thing for any sane parent to do.

She's been full of excitement about the upcoming nativity and keeps hugging me and telling me she loves me and that she's excited for Christmas and all the other things that little girls do. I don't think I've done her any lasting harm, not that I could ever do it again, but I keep thinking that I just don't deserve her. Either of them.

Please don't beat yourself up over this ...
she pushed you over the edge and you reacted .
she won't hold this against you and will hopefully learn how hard (or not too hard) to push it before mum loses it
There has to be limits and if she thinks she can tantrum and behave how she likes she has to realise how her behaviour is wrong and by you losing once in a blue moon may be the wake up call she needs
And don't worry about how she will be as a teenager ,
in my option even if they are pain in the arse when small they get it out of the system then and grow into very chilled young adults ..

Thank you furbaby.

I can't help beating myself up about it though. Can't get it out of my head.

What do you do to stop yourself in the heat of the moment? What if I do it again?

You will get over it. Trust me! I felt exactly the same when i sacked DS. Oh it's horrid. I kept replaying it over and over again. All i focused on was how i simply did not deserve him, and he certainly deserved a lot better than me.
But you know what; you move on.
Dd will frustrate you madly again, possibly even tomorrow morning, but hold on to how shit you feel now and it will restrain you.

Any chance you can pick her up before lunch? We can for the first couple of terms. Helps with the tiredness

Too be honest I think that you have both learned from this .
She seems happy enough and not holding it against you .
christ children can be so very frustrating at times and you lost it .
Realy its no big deal , I don't think you are going to turn into a child beater anytime soon .
Try and move on from this .
When I was growing up I was smacked a few times and then I realised I was wrong and had pushed my fantastic parents that little bit too far .
Please don, t feel bad , she has moved on from this and you need too .
Believe me when she, s older she will probably think she deserved it .

You are all so kind.

I feel shit, deservedly so, and you're all being so nice.

I could have written your post about both my children.

I have smacked them both. It doesn't work.

I have tried so hard to remember that no argument was ever won by shouting. The calmer I act, the better the outcome.

But yes, I see red too.

Tomorrow is another day. Chin up.

I agree with furbaby about this having no relevance to how she will be when she gets older. I was a horrendous toddler, screaming fits all the time, impatient, in constant need of attention etc and my mum said if I had been the first dc, she wouldn't have had any more. I was awful. But as teenagers go, I was a dream and never went through the sulky, rude, parent - hating stage

Has today been better?

Hopeful...

I just did the free pnp message from Santa. My kids are now being amazing.

I've been doing the snack thing straight after school and it's worked because she's been a lot better.

She tried to have a tantrum yesterday but I kept my temper and calmed her down and she was fine.

Work in progress.

Good for you!