Getting 3 year old to stay in own bed all night

[littlemissblue]

I have a 3 1/2 year old DS who has always been a bad sleeper. Until recently he would get v upset if I left him at bedtime to go to sleep by himself and wanted me to stay in the room with him.

I have managed to stop this though and he now goes to bed around 7pm and I can leave the room and he'll go off by himself.

Recently dropped his nap so he's going to bed earlier than before which works well for me as I'm 31 weeks preg.

He wakes between midnight and 4am every night though and cries for me in his bed (daddy won't do he gets hysterical if daddy goes not me) and wants to come in our bed. I have been giving in as he goes straight back to sleep in bed with us until around 6am.

However with new baby due in Feb I feel he needs to stay in his bed all night now but not sure of best way to go about it. I'm so tired I hate the idea of hours of crying and battling with him but I guess that's inevitable??

Anyone been in this situation? Have tried the gro clock but found it lit his room up so brightly it woke him properly when he went into light sleep (even on dimmest setting). Do I just need to tuck him back in explain its still night time and he needs to go back to sleep in his bed and leave? Or stay until he goes back to sleep again? If I leave him and he screams should I go back after a few mins?

Hoping after a few nights of hell he'll get the idea, but he's a sensitive soul (esp with baby coming) and will pull out all the stops to make me back down - scared, thirsty, pull up leaked, mummy I need you etc etc and I'm so hormonal I'm worried if I can do it!

Dh works 5am - 10pm in London so won't be able to help me inthe night as he needs his sleep, plus DS gets more upset if he goes to him in the night.

Any advice welcome! Sorry it's so long :/

Misty how's the night going so far? I feel your pain although DS is quite easy at going to bed it's just during the night we have problems. Hope you get a good night, day of tantrums isn't fun!

Amazing how many of us are going through the same thing and yet I know no one personally who's child has a sleep problem except me! Makes me feel crap when all my mum friends' children sleep through in their own beds and have since 6 months :/

Thanks for the gro clock tip I'll def be using that for morning wake ups once he's got sleeping through cracked!

We had antenatal class tonight so put DS to bed at 6.30pm (no nap today) and he was asleep within 10 mins, the babysitter said he hadn't stirred when we got back at 10pm, which is normal tbh he doesn't wake til early hours usually, just off to bed now hoping for a good night! Baby is awake and kicked me though so who knows when I'll get to sleep!!!!

Good luck everyone! X

Quiet so far... i really ought to be asleep too. Hope your second baby allows you some sleep! Fingers crossed for good nights all round :)

How was last night LittleMiss?

I remember going through this when DD was 2.5. It was a real shock to the system as she'd slept through the night from a few weeks old, then suddenly she just wouldn't stay in her bed and sleep.

I took advice from various people and did what you did, sitting by the bed then moving further and further away each day until eventually I sat outside her room (with a book...) with the door open until she could still see me. Then sat in our bedroom talking with DH so she could hear that we were next door and eventually she just started dropping back to sleep.

It took about 2 weeks altogether and she's never done it since - weird!! We went for the Groclock aswell and DD still has it now.

As your DS has asked for a night-light, would it be worth you trying the gro-clock again?

Sounds like you've made great progress though!!

We had a crappy night :/ DS woke at 3.45am and didn't go back to sleep til 5.30am :(( he was crying he was scared / needed a wee / wanted me to stay with him etc kept coming in if we didn't go to him. I'm exhausted.

Had to get cross in the end and threaten to take his cuddlies away if he didn't stop being silly and go to sleep. It worked but fed up it took so long :( he's just woken up at 7.30am which is v v v late for him but not if he's been up for that long in the night I guess.

Dh is taking him to London with him today as they have a nursery at his work and he loves going on the train, going out to lunch in London etc so at least I get a day of rest today.

A day off sounds good OP - reckon you should make the most of it. I still think he's doing well and while it is tiring, if you do this every night for a fortnight, you'll find those random nights when he comes through (as he will do it every so often I'd imagine) will be few and far between and he'll settle quicker when you go to him.

It's a big change for him and it will take him a while to get used to it (these night wakenings might also be him expressing some kind of stress/worry about the new baby - you never know). A friend of mine said they'd read something about not making any big changes to toddlers/preschoolers in the 4 months before and after a new baby arrives - not sure where she got it from.

Have a bath, a nap (although I always find napping makes me more tired - not sure why!) read a book and enjoy your day of peace (mentally preparing yourself for tonight - which will probably be fine as he'll be shattered being out all day :-D

my eldest miraculously started sleeping through the night when my second was born (she was 2.5 at the time). then, the same thing happened with my second (never slept through the night) until I put her in a big double bed with her big sister when she was 2.5 and now they both sleep through every night. i don't sleep train or any of that other stuff, so I know it's my fault, but i think they just like cuddling up to a warm body in the middle of the night so I'm so happy they seem to love sleeping in the same bed!

I just felt so helpless in the night, nothing I did made any difference! He's so stubborn he just won't give up without a huge fight and I don't want to get cross with him if he scared but part of me just feels like he's saying it as another ploy for a attention.

Everything seems so much worse in the middle of the night! Mum thinks I need to get tougher with him as he's so clever he runs rings round me!

Dh has told the nursery to give him as much nap as he wants today As he was up half the night, so hope he doesn't have a huge one then not be tired tonight, although he won't be home til later I suppose.

Hi there, I had this problem with my little boy (when aged 3), gro clock didn't work and found out the blue light this gives off is not very helpful for sleep anyway, even on lowest setting.

So I replaced it with nightlight (one that goes on plug socket) on timer, and set the timer to go off at 6am. I explained this to him and if he did it 'fairy' would bring him some raisins (they are like sweets to him). You have to be strict any only give reward if 'stays quiet until light goes off'. To begin with, I set it for 5 and worked it (5 min per night) to 6 o'clock. Worked really well, and only very rarely he doesn't get reward. Some people might do a few smarties or something. I printed off image of the fairy and I gave it to him with the treat. It basically means when light is on (bedtime / wakeup) they can't make a fuss/ shout out etc. Well, they can but they don't get reward. If they do shout out a lot, you just go in and tell them that the light is on, it's sleep time and leave the room again.

P.S You've done a great job, if he can now fall asleep himself - that will make things easier.

Ok so this is where I'm not sure the best thing to do... When he cries for me / comes in to find me do i

A. Go to him/ take him straight back, tuck him in tell him it's bedtime and time to sleep and leave straight away - which means he'll carry on crying or come straight back into our room... And repeat.

Or

B. Go to him and stay with him for a while until he's calm and then leave him to go to sleep by himself?

I've tried staying with him until he goes to sleep but he keeps checking I'm still there and he's v quiet and still but after half hour he was still awake! I can't sit on his floor for hours I'm just too tired.

I wish it was going to bed we had issues with as at least I'm not in bed then and I'd have more patience! Plus he'd be more tired, whereas at 3-4am he's had a good chunk of sleep already. He goes to bed easily, by himself though so you'd think he could self settle in the night!!!!

I'd say "B". it's going to be tough but it is doable.
If he doesn't want to do something we have to be very firm / use naughty step to gain back control. He's very clever too, if I ask him to eat 5 more mouthfuls he'll say ' or how about 3? ' he can negiotiate very well. "I'll go help daddy make a cup of tea and he can bring you a biscuit, and I can have one too!"
^^ He sounds a perfect candidate for a reward chart. Put DC2 on it when they arrive too as he'll love to feel superior to his "badly sleeping" younger sibling!

Well i've just ordered a Thomas reward chart from Amazon which will come on Saturday! ds really wants Skarloey (train from Thomas tank) so that can be his reward for staying in bed all night for a week!

Hey little miss sounds like you are doing great but remember to be as firm as possible and to not give him attention in the middle of the night (although it is hard). He is playing up more because he probably realises that this is a way for you to stay in his room, give him cuddles etc. be firm, back to bed, not even a friendly voice - keep doing it and remember it is a battle of wills and he just has to get bored of it before you cave!

Even negative attention is better than none in his eyes so try not to give him any IYSWIM and he'll soon realise its not worth getting up/ waking up for.

Then loads and loads of attention when he sleeps through.

Therefore option A

Am watching with interest as he sounds very similar to my DD who is 4.5.
She's always been a bad sleeper - must have tried just about everything since she was born - all of which have either been unsuccessful or worked for a week.

She managed to rack up 20 nights in her own bed (over about 5 months) to get a coveted dress but as soon as she'd got it she was back in our bed and didn't mind when I took it away again.

We had 3 hellish nights of taking her back to her own bed every time she came in to ours (took over an hour of continuously carrying her back kicking and screaming every time she woke so v little sleep of anyone) which we thought had done the trick but a week later she was ill so back to square 1 and I couldn't face doing it again.

So she trots into our room every night and snuggles up. It doesn't really disturb our sleep most nights but it makes it hard to get up early in the morning (to have shower, walk dog etc.) as she wakes up too and is then grumpy.

Her younger brother has also started waking in the night after being a pretty good sleeper so far but I'm trying not to make the same mistakes with him so am gritting my teeth and putting up with some crying - I'm sure it's better in the long run!

I'd go option B. At least then you've got option A left to try. If you start with A you don't really have anything else to do.

If you're exhausted though i do think option A is likely to work faster. Good luck!

It might not feel like it, but it does sound like progress littlemiss :) reward chart is a good thing to try too - we did this with ds recently, and whilst he got the concept and talked about getting his stars, he wasn't too bothered to not get them! He's only just two though, so a bit young maybe still.

Our night wasn't too bad - up at 2am (dh tells me ) but settled quickly and up for the day at 6.30am.

As for which option, we're currently going with B as A just results in hysterics and he can't self settle when he's in such a state. I'd try B and see how you go...but can your dh not take some of the strain?? Or at least start it on a weekend and get him to do both nights?

He took an hour to go down tonight and is full of cold again bloody nursery so we'll see what the night holds. Good luck your end :)

roweena ds got back from london and said he felt sick (from the car i think) and was white as a sheet and coughing/gagging over the toilet, got over it quite quick but doesn't seem quite right still. Makes me worry about being too hard on him tonight, why do they always get poorly at the worst times??! He had an hour nap today (woke at 2.50pm!) and so he's only just gone to bed now (9pm), so who knows what the night will hold!

notwoo i feel your pain :/

Barberry i agree but as you say A will work faster and i have chronic back ache today, the thought of being up and down all night fills me with dread. Although both options involve me getting up i guess.

Misty i'll swap your night for mine! I doubt ds will go for the reward chart, he's not bothered about stickers when he's having a tantrum in the night, but you never know. Dh did help a bit last night, but he goes back to sleep immediately after putting ds back to bed and so as soon as ds comes back in or kicks off i have to wake him back up to get up and see to him. i'm awake anyway as i can't sleep until ds gone off properly, so seems pointless us both being awake.

argh why am i having another one of these non sleeping creatures??!!!!

I'd go for option B, but I'm soft.

What does he say when you discuss this with him in the cold light of day? What reasons does he give about coming through to your room? Do you discuss how tired you are and how if he comes to your room you can't play with him as much during the day as you've used up all your energy?

Have you read the 'there's a house in mummy's tummy' book to him? It's one of those 'you're having a new sibling' books, but it's got a bit in it about how mummy gets tired when she's pregnant, so you could maybe dwell on that bit!

Have you got him to agree (in daytime) that he will try really hard to sleep through? Or does the nighttime totally negate anything he says/discusses about it during the day?

If he likes negotiating (DS1 loves making deals), then that's in your favour, you can negotiate/make a deal about how if he doesn't come through then x will happen (whatever floats his boat) but if he does come through then x will not happen.

Eletheomel yes we talked about it this morning and he said he wanted me to stay with him because he was scared of being by himself. I told him how tired i am - he knows anyway as i say it a lot! - and how we all need our sleep but it makes no difference.

He agrees every evening he's going to stay in his bed and we agree on something he can have next day if he does, which he is keen on, but when night comes he forgets about it and when i remind him he doesn't care.

Good luck, its so easy to post on here telling you to be firm with him but its stupidly difficult to actually do with your own son (speaking from experience). Was he looking ill when he went to bed? If so take it easy, but try not to tell him sleep in your bed as you may be back to square one.

Obviously if he's really ill though then sometimes cuddles are the best medicine

Thanks Roweena, night was ok he didn't actually wake til 5am but really don't want him up before 6am so we had an hour of screaming and taking him back to bed.

I got in bed with him for last 5 mins and he calmed down, he told me he's scared of people coming in to get him and that's why he wants me to stay in his room with him :/

Is there any scope for introducing a new 'guard' cuddly toy (or any toy I suppose if he doesn't like soft toys) that will keep him safe? We often tell our son that his favourite toy doggy will keep him safe at night and he's just to give him a cuddle and he'll be okay (blatant lie - but well, that's motherhood for you....)

Or you could make some kind of 'shrine' thing with all his favourite things and photos of you and your DH and him and say it's got magic powers (ya da ya da ya da - more and more lies

Is there anything he's seen or heard recently that might have given him a bit of a scare (might be why he's suddenly started doing this?)

We also still have a monitor in DS1's room and he uses that as a 2-way communicator so he just tells us if he needs a wee or anything and we come through to get him. It's not an ideal solution for you, but maybe if he could talk to you it might help reassure him? (still waking you up though, which sort of defeats the purpose, but might stop you having to get up all the time and might stop his crying if he knows you can always hear him (if you know what I mean) esp if he's getting scared.

I know the gro clock has been mentioned many times on this thread (and you've not had much luck with it) but that was the one thing that worked for us in terms of getting DS1 to stay in bed until 6:30am.

It took a bit of time and we were realistic initially (his usual wake time was 5am, so we'd set his gro clock for 5:10 and make him stay until the sun came up, then we'd increase it incrementally until the time we wanted - often he'd wake before then, but he would (and still does) stay in bed until his sun came up).

Eletheomel he LOVES cuddly toys and he has about 15 in bed with him!! I know if i say that Eeyore will keep him safe he'll just say 'no he won't' and carry on crying. he doesn't believe a word we say half the time lol i'm just torn as to whether he's playing on the 'i'm scared' tactic or if he really is.

He did watch ET other other week and this morning he said he was scared ET was coming into his room.... but my gut tells me he's not as worried as he's making out.

If he carries on sleeping through but waking at 5 ish then i'll definitely get the gro clock back out and give it another shot. i'm sure he'll just lay in bed crying until sun comes up though! talk about high maintenance.

He was very grumpy and argumentative/rude this morning before preschool. Had to put him on the naughty step in the end. Told him it's because he and mummy are so tired because he got up too early and cried in his bed, but doubt it sunk in!

I have a day wrapping Christmas presents today but don't feel very merry at the moment. Feel like every things getting on top of me, dh has problems at work and is worried he's not going to get any bonus in January which would mean we're in the sh*t as we are relying on it to get the baby stuff and pay off some debts. Fed up ds is being so difficult, my back is agony, knackered, going away after Christmas and need to cook food/prepare for that argh.

Sorry for moaning!

'Tis the season to be moany littlemissblue, you're not alone and you've got a lot on your plate, give yourself a break, it's tough in late pregnancy when you have an older child and are getting no sleep and christmas is a bloody expensive and stressful time of the year, and if you've got debt and work worries no wonder things are getting on top of you.

You could always put your daughter in with your son when she comes home from teh hospital, you might find if he's getting woken every 2 hours all night, he won't have the energy to be scared/start crying....

I think we overplayed the 'tired and grumpy' card with DS1 to the extent that now whenever he's a bit grumpy and we ask him what's going on, he starts crying 'it's because I'm tired'.

I realise this suggestion is mean (and it's relying on pulling out the big guns) but have you mentioned that santa might not be pleased with the fact he's getting up at night and that if he doesn't start staying in his bed, santa might not come as he doesn't like to be seen by boys and girls during the night? And that he might end up on the naughty list...

(my son is very concerned about santa - but mind you, he buys the 'guard' cuddly toy lie, so maybe he's just a sucker!)