How do you make a 12 year old do as he is asked

[Philly]

I am up here in my bedroom having left my 12 year old downstairs.I just can't make him do as I ask.we had had a really nice evening,he had organised a friend to go to the cinema tomorrow,played with his brother nad watched some telly with me.but then I asked him to go to bed(10 oclock),he just refused,he is bigger than me and has an answer for everything,"what silly punishment will you come up with today I don't care you know"Nothing seems to upset him he will put up with anything just to win the argument.He knows he is bigger and stronger than me and can always win the argument,we have tried taking away the computer (6 weeks)he would rather die than show he was bothered.We were going to get him some new trainers on Friday and I have just told him we will not be going but he says he doesn't care because his old ones are 'ok anyway (they have hole in the sole)He ridicules me all the time ,but can be really loving and good company but i need him to do as he is asked,Itry not to be unreasonable and he does nothing around the house at all,any request to help is met with a tantrum ,he has never once washed up or even set the table,he is just as stubborn as an ox.Hr has just come and apologised but qualified it with a comment that I am just being ridiculous anyway!
Dh just gets really cross with him and issues ridiculous punishemnts which I am unable to enforce (he works long hours and is rarely at home in the evening)but I feel at the end of my tether.If he doesn't respect me now what will it be like in 2 years time....boarding school seems a realistic option now!!!!!

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sorry ladies, nothing to add. Hoping for answers myself as i have a 12yo ds too...can't get him up in the morning, nor get him to bed at night. He's lovely really, just a bit of a pita atm...

You are not alone !

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I think you need to be persistent and consistent.
punishments like taking away computer and not buying trainers are excellent because you CAN and WILL do them. And even if he pretends he doesn't care you can bet your bottom dollar that he does really.
Just stick with it. Tell him that until he learns to respect you then he won't get any respect back. If he says things like "what silly punishment will you come up with today I don't care you know" then IGNORE him. he wants an argument.
You tell him "if you don't go to bed then you won't have X treat" and that's IT. If he then chooses not to go that's his tough luck.

But you do need to follow through and show him that when you say something you mean it. JUst keep taking away priviledges until he learns that you are the boss, not him

Thanks I know consistancy is the key,it's just so waring and he really would argue the hind leg off a donkey(he's in the debating team!!!)

snorkle,yes he does seem a bit happier at school,i still don't think he is over the moon with it but he does seem more settled and managed to get into teh B team for cricket and did OK in his exams so we are going to see how year 8 goes,he just is one of life's moaners!

I don't have a 12 yr old myself yet (thank god)but have worked with them and know how tiring it can be.
Try not to get involved in discussions though, if he wants to start a debate with you just say something like "i've said my bit, you have your choice and that's the end of it" and then just walk away if you have to, or just ignore it (hard, I know!)

it's pretty hard having an argument with someone if they aren't arguing back

Well, I tend to take away his DS(game), ban him from TV, and the like. The other day, he and his brother refused to tidy the sitting room, so dh says no dinner 'til it's done, it worked like a charm. I do think that they should be made to do chores around the house, my lot are on holiday now, and I'm damned if they're all going to sit around watching TV while I cook, clean and do laundry.

Maybe it's just a phase. My ds has become really disrespectful too, it's in the tone of his voice as much as in what he's saying to me. And that's nothing compared to the way I hear him talking to his next younger brother.

I think it is really good advice from hairymclairy and i am going to try and follow it with my dd1. It is so hard though - we had a big row on Sunday and i know i made it worse by not letting it go and wanting the last word. In future, i am really going to try to dish out the punishment (ie no computer) and leave it at that and not react to whatever she comes back with!

I'm in the same situation as you Philly, as in my dh works long hours. He also issues punishments and then is not around to face the consequences.

i have a 12yr old ds too who can be just the same as your ds philly,well mostly all the time lol although he will do the drying up ect now&then but refuses to tidy his own mess/room up,if i send him up there to tidy he will still be sitting where i left him 5hours later as he gets disstracted by something else,bedtimes are a nightmare too&always have been,as punishment i either ground him or take away tv,ps2 ect but doesnt always work,sorry cant be of any help but atleast you know your not alone with this onexx

lock the fridge and food cupboards and starve him into submission - well, it works for my nearly 9-yr-old when he's having an adolescent moment