Bitey bitey... DS not 'growing out of it'

[LongTailedTit]

Not sure if this is the right place to post this?

DS is 2 and a half, and has been biting us and his friends for at least a year.
It seemed originally to be caused by teething, and frustration at lack of communication.

Since it started, we've had great long breaks with no incidents, often at least a month, then it happens again out of the blue and goes on for a while.

Now, he seems to bite out of anger, getting overwhelmed, sometimes teething related (we're still waiting in those back molars...), and if he thinks other children are too close - he likes to have his own personal space.
He now also pinches and hair pulls, but the pinching is usually faces, he goes for cheeks and scarily eyes, and has left horrible scratch marks on his friends faces.

I don't dare take my eyes off him at playgroups or at friends houses - when I do get complacent, he has bitten/pinched completely out of the blue and seemingly for no reason.

He started pre-school in September and has been absolutely loving it much to my surprise, but bit one of the boys suddenly just before half term - apparently no lead up and both in a good mood beforehand. It wasn't a hard bite thank goodness and didn't leave a mark, but my heart sank, I thought we'd turned a corner.
The next day, a friend watched him while I went for a pg scan, and he bit her DS out of the blue too, while both were happily jumping up and down on a beanbag.

As of last week, he has now started saying "Bite Tom" and "Pinch Tom" - 'Tom' names changed to protect the innocent is the little boy from our NCT group who lives over the road, and is also in his preschool class, same age.
We see a lot of him, and he is a very different personality to DS. Tom is outgoing and confident, very verbal, wants to play with DS (DS doesn't get the concept of playing together yet), but will come up and take away any toy DS is holding/interested in.
In contrast, DS is happier playing on his own, not saying full sentences yet, not keen on interacting with others much, and is quite clingy with me. He's a very happy smiley boy at home on his own, but doesn't like crowds or children coming close to him. He still screams if another child gets too close, to warn them off. Bizarrely this doesn't seem to happen at preschool .

Tom's a happy boy, but DS finds him intimidating, and has decided that attack is the best form of defence. DS 'goes for him' completely unprovoked, and seems to have fixated on him as someone he is constantly aggressive to.

This new "Bite Tom" thing is really worrying me.
Everyone tells me "It's just a stage, he'll grow out of it", but this has been going on for over a year and tbh has only got worse.
The preschool staff do the same as we do at home with biting - immediately but briefly tell the biter off "No, we don't bite, it's naughty", then ignore and lavish the bitee with attention. I always apologise to both bitee and parent too, but really struggle to get DS to say sorry, he seems to find it exciting.

Has anyone got any advice please?

I think its really good your worried about it far to many arnt have u still got hv ? Can u ask her? Tbh I remember a boy at school that bite hit etc he's in and out of jail now not saying that's going happen but it turns out he had adhd again not saying but might be worth seeing if it runs deeper his probs and be4 your newborn that he might bite sorry for being doom and gloom.

Thanks for replying zoesmum

I've been concerned about it since the first time he bit another child, but always get told its just normal toddler behaviour.

I do still have a HV, but they're not much use really. I could give it another try tho, you never know!

He's far too young for a diagnosis of ADHD or any thing similar, or so I've been told.
A school-age child that bites/hits is a very different situation than a partially verbal toddler. If he's still lashing out by that age then it would def be a big red flag for deeper issues!
Fingers crossed he doesn't have any issues like ASD/ADHD etc, but I gather it can take years for a diagnosis of these in any case.

My first DS was a biter...and he was still biting by about 3.5 possibly nearer 4 if I remember correctly.

He used to get really frustrated and that was his way of saying "back off" as his speech wasn't great either. I used to literally never take my eyes off him at toddler groups but he still did it.

Fast forward a few years and he is now nearly 9 and is the calmest most gentlest boy there is...so honestly don't worry about it too much. Obviously keep an eye on him but it doesn't necessarily mean anything apart from frustration.

Thank you iheart! Good to hear.
What did you do when he bit? Do you think there's anything I could try, speech development or anything? I've always been of the opinion that I should let him develop at his own pace, but if it could help him stop biting maybe it's worth a shot?

If you son is not very verbal yet have you given him other ways to communicate like some simple sign language?

We tried signing when he was smaller but didn't persevere enough. He's putting 3-4 words together now, so can generally tell us what's up, but he often needs reminding - he'll be whining and getting wound up and I have to say "DS use your words to tell me what's the matter/what you want" etc.
His speech gets better every week, but his default with other children is to be physical.

My middle child, a girl, was also a biter - although I'm not sure it lasted this long. I would definitely keep him away from any child who he s fixated on at the moment (Tom). It sounds like Tom has more social skills than your son currently and so his frustration comes out in this manner. My daughter was this way with her older sister, it can be so frustrating I'm sure to feel you are out gunned by a more sophiscated sibling or playmate and there's really nothing equal to their abilities in your toolbox. (Except a pair of gnashers!) My middle child is actually the most outgoing, strong-willed, charming, fiesty and resilient out of my three. And naturally it took a while for us to see the fullness of her personality when she was very small (she's now 10). She very much has her point of view and she has a big personality so I can easily see why she turned out to be the biter when a baby/toddler.

It's very important that you protect other children from your biter and make sure he does have consequences if he bites. Playdates would be over if my daughter bit anyone, and the attention should go to the child who is bitten NOT the biter - who should be swiftly removed to a more boring occupation immediately. If your son gets lots of horrified and shocked adults zooming in I'm sure it's very gratifying. I should warn you that my daughter was also the one who tried out colorful vocabulary on Grandparents and would frequently announce "I kissed Patrick ON THE LIPS at circle time" when she was 5! looking around for shocked adult faces. So in her case anyway it seemed to be linked to her personality type and that is only possible to truly understand with hindsight.

My cousin was a terrific biter, and, far from a career as a jailbird, is a successful banker. (Spot the difference)

Biting is normal, but that doesn't mean it's ok and I feel your mortification. Treat is as tho DS were doing something dangerous to himself - eg touching a hot stove - really, act that fast and react to him with that emotional vigour.

DS was a biter and very, very occasionally still is. He does it through frustration mostly, usually when he feels unable to express a need or want quickly enough. He directs it mostly at his sister tbh. It used to be all the time. Now it's very rare. Once a month at most and usually we can stop it before it happens.

If you're still waiting on molars, I think actually it's quite normal for the behaviour to be continuing. DS was always much, much more inclined to bite when teething and if his molars aren't through yet, I bet they're niggling a bit. This won't help.

I can outline what I did if it helps...

I used to make sure I was always, always there. Luckily, I could read when he was planning on doing it and intervene. If you have a situation where you see him gearing up to it, then intervene quickly but not to pull him away (if it's another child you must do this but I mean if it's with you). Remind him v quickly in a firm but quite upbeat voice that you understand he's cross but no biting. Encourage him to use a phrase to express his anger maybe. DS liked 'oh no'. Make sure you acknowledge what it is that's caused the problem. If he's wanting a toy somebody else has or he's refusing to cooperate, voice what the issue is, acknowledge it and offer an alternative. When he doesn't bite (and it might be 1 time in 10 at first), make sure you really, really praise him for making a better choice. The second he does bite, change your tone, move away, withdraw, state you are unhappy and walk away.

Ds never responded to being told off. He'd react to the telling off and become very upset but I found he learnt nothing and once calm couldn't really explain why things had escalated. If I moved away at the first bite, turned my back, gave my attention to dd if it was her who had been bitten and showed him that his behaviour would result only in an exclusion from the family unit, he quickly learnt that it wasn't a behaviour associated with being part of a fun, happy family. He started to say sorry of his own volition.

DS was a biter from about 12 months. He's 26 months now and while he sometimes lapses, he knows himself that it is wrong. He will sometimes get very cross and lean in to bite his sister and she says 'no biting' and he stops himself and sometimes even chuckles and says 'no, dd not my dinner today'. We had to teach him though. Slowly. Really slowly.

He's actually a v sensitive and loving little boy, extremely affectionate and keen to look after anybody who is hurt. He just didn't understand that he couldn't bite at first. They don't know it's painful because they can't feel it. You can't teach them that it hurts when they're that young but you can teach them it's wrong.

I also found that ds loved the book 'Doodle Bites' about the crocodile in the Tilly and Friends series of books (also a series on television now I believe). The phrase 'no bitey bitey' was repeated often and we reminded ds that he was to be like Doodle and learn not to bite his friends.

He's still very, very young and I don't think still biting at 2 constitutes a desire to live outside society and cause pain. He won't know it causes pain, merely that he's driven to act out his frustration. He just needs to act it out differently and finally manage to not act it out at all. I genuinely believe he'll get there.

BTW, ds also bit when he was happy. He did it to express joy. So bouncing up and down on a beanbag and then biting out of the blue was something he absolutely would have done. A bit like punching the air I suppose if you're an adult. I taught ds to high five instead or to put both hands in the air and shout 'hooray'. It worked very well.

Honey Cory & Showy
That is all so helpful, thank you, I really appreciate the input of others who've been there too!

I've tried deflection in the past, esp when teething was in full flow, by giving him objects to bite, teething rings and mussies etc while saying "Bite things, not people", but it didn't work, so I kind of gave up and stuck to the 'tell off then ignore' routine.
I def like the idea of teaching him 'Oh no' and 'Hooray', and will see if I can get hold of the Doodle Bites book - he will recognise Doodles from the TV so might pay a bit more attention.

'Tom' def has far more developed social skills, DSs are sorely lacking... We had a different friend over this afternoon and he went to pinch him countless times, all caught in time tho. Lots and lots of high pitched screaming too. Fortunately the boy and his mother are both supremely chilled out and don't take it personally, but I ended up v tense.
In the end, he bit me. Caught me totally unawares when he was hugging my legs hiding from his friend, and bit me through my jeans. :(

I def need to woman up and start following thru with discipline better - this current phase could be due to the last three months of my laziness due to morning sickness, I think I've let some of his poor behaviour slide as I felt too rough to cope with it. I used to take him out of the room every time he was aggressive, but he didn't seem to 'get' the cause and effect so I stopped it. He's older now, I'll give it another go. Also, maybe he enjoys the drama he's created even if he doesn't directly benefit from it - removing him from the room means he won't get the 'thrill'.
He also gets very upset when told off, and massive tantrums ensue, during which he headbutts the floor etc and has given himself massive bruises, so I'm always wary of the fine line between telling him he did something wrong and pushing him over the edge. 'Tis exhausting!
However, I Must Grow A Backbone.

I know I'm very long-winded in all my explanations, but his aggression has such a major impact on everything we do, who we see, where we go etc, that it's become a massive elephant in the room!

Thank you for your advice.

I could have written that post about my dd 2.8 we've just started her with a speech therapist to try and improve her language skills as in our case there is a definite link between her biting episodes and her lack of speech/ communication.

Have to say in the month we've been working on it there has been some improvement. We basically gone back to one year old speech development to try and boost her vocabulary. Might be worth getting an assessment we got ours at the local sure start centre.

winters that's really interesting - in that case I'll def get in touch with my HV, she might be able to help after all!

With DS, his vocabulary seems quite good, he just doesn't use it much. He's been going on about Vikings, pirates, and the 'deep blue sea', and 'hot lava volcano' too much Ben & Holly, yet when he's upset and I ask him what he wants he can't tell me.

PS have ordered 'Doodle Bites' already, it'll be here tomorrow! Thank you DH for leaving your Amazon Prime account signed in on my iPad

do you tell him off when he does it? I can't see you mention that you do in your OP, and having had a biter myself, I think it's quite important for them to be in absolutely no doubt at all that you are deeply upset/cross when they bite someone else, followed up by exclusion on the naughty step or whatever you use. at 2 1/2, he can understand what your saying, even if his speech lags behind. Maybe also best he doesn't play with this tom any more for a while, clearly it isn't working at the moment.

sorry just read on a bit and see that you do tell him off. well just keep at it, and be very very tough ?ith him if he's biting you. that must be very tough to deal with, especially if you are under par with morning sickness. can his dad not have a man to man chat with him about not biting mummy?

If he is biting through frustration I really rate the book How to talk so kids will listen and how to listen so kids will talk. It has loads of ideas on how to handle children differently which I found really useful with my frustrating frustrated 2 year old.

One of the techniques is to try to guess why they are upset, sympathise and suggest solutions, so if DS were going to hit I would tell him "No DS! We don't hit. Hitting is not kind. Are you cross because X took your toy? It is hard to share your toy isn't it. Let's take turns. Now it's your turn. Very good waiting DS" etc etc. It didn't always work but sometimes it did and it was worth it for those fleeting parenting wins! It also helped DS to express his feelings better and talk with me rather than just getting angry.

Also, re the "Tom bite" thing, is it possible he is telling you about a situation that happened before? So he is trying to discuss what he did last time rather than planning to do it again? Try interpreting it like that (are you telling me about when you bit Tom last week? That made Tom sad and mummy sad too didn't it. Next time DS no biting and mummy will be very pleased, good DS") and see how he reacts.

PoshPenny - yes, I've said to Tom's mum that we will take a bit of a break from them for a while, play date wise at least. We often walk home from preschool together and she pointed out they're usually fine outside so will keep doing that, it's when they're indoors around each others toys they get territorial and incidents happen. Def time for a break!

PourqouiPas I've heard good things about that book - have just lent 123 Magic to my neighbour so maybe I'd better get myself a copy!
I do already talk to him like that when I'm on the ball, but haven't tried the past-event thing, that's def worth a shot.

Follow-up!

We took a month-long play break from 'Tom' and it's worked wonders. They came over for tea last week and DS and Tom played brilliantly together for the first time, standing at the windowsill pushing cars down the ramp together.
Also, the preschool staff told us they'd been hugging too! :)

I bought myself a copy of 'How to talk..." but haven't got around to reading it yet too much MNing so shall take it to my mums over Xmas, bugger all else to do there!

DS hasn't bitten anyone else but me since I started this thread, phew, and also his speech is coming on really well. All sorts of new words and phrases every day, it's brilliant.
He had some awful tantrums tho, and is still head butting a lot, especially hitting his head on the floor until it's sore. Really upsets me, but I try to be calm and just say "Don't hit your head DS, it will hurt, if you hit your head it will be owie" and walk off. He does still love an audience.

ShowOf DS loves 'Doodle Bites'! Thank you for the recommendation. We read it a lot, and now he says 'biting naughty' and 'DS bite food, not friends' etc.

I have to be careful how I read it tho, tone-wise, as he still thinks Doodle is v exciting, but doesn't fancy getting his tail stamped on...