WONT POO! At age 3 1/2 he holds it in for days

[cookiem]

My little boy who is 3 1/2 has been potty training for a year now. He is dry of a night and goes the toilet for a wee no problem during the day and night.

Ever since we started training him, he has never wanted to go on the potty/toilet to poo. We bought every potty/toilet seat imaginable and that still didn't encourage him. In the begining he used to just poo himself all the time but has now progressed in the last 6 months to not letting it out.

He stands rigid and goes red in the face and squeezes his bum together and says nothing is wrong when clearly we know he needs to go. After him keeping it in for about 2 or 3 days we have to finally take him to the toilet and make him sit there until he does it as i'm terrified he's going to damage himself. He looks terrible with bags under his eyes and his behaviour is awful when he needs to go.

I've tried stickers, bribes, rewards, shouting, ignoring and nothing works. I've spoken to his nursery, health visitor and doctors and they just say " he'll grow out of it" which doesn't help me.

Please, if anyone had any suggestions to help me i would be grateful, i just feel like bursting out in tears when he's straining as i know he's in pain and the longer he leaves it the worse it will be for him. HEEEEELLLLLPPPPPPPP!!!

With DS1 (nearly 5) we had a long talk about pooing and why we needed to flush it out of our system. There is a great book called "The flip flap body book" which has a whole section on what happens to our food when we eat it and where it comes out. And now i have upped the praise and it seems to be working - three poohs in the toilet in 5 days

Thinking about it, this happended last summer as well - we dealt with the problem and he has been pretty good until about a month or two. Could it be caused by dehydration?

Cookiem - I've also been thinking about looking for advice for same problem in my ds2. He's nearly 3 and is potty trained for wee but won't do a poo every day - which he always did when in nappies.

He can go 3 or 4 days without doing a poo, but day 2/3/4, he has lots of small tummy aches and I've taken to rubbing his tummy. A long time ago, someone told me that rubbing the tummy in a clockwise direction (up on the right and down on the left hand side) would help the whole digestive system...

So I've started to do that, although I'm not absolutely sure it's the right thing - he never has these tummy aches at nursery, or has his tummy rubbed there - but then he only does poos at home. Hmmm! But normally, he'll do a poo within an hour of asking for his tummy to be rubbed (don't mean I rub for the whole hour!! - will be on and off, and end with him sort of contracting/flexing and then rushing off to the potty). I've had many long conversations with him (bit one sided maybe!) about how his tummy stops hurting when he does a poo, which he entirely agrees with - but at the moment, I can't see him responding to a 'firm voice' and he certainly won't sit on the potty if nothing's happening (unlike ds1 who watched a whole western once while sitting on the potty!!!)

I'm interested in the suggestion that fruit juice worse than water in this context??? Wonder why?

Sit him on the toilet the same time everyday preferably after eating a meal. Then make him blow bubbles with those pots you get at a party. Also no apple juice and only one cup of milk a day.

or go to the doc and get some Movical - marvellous stuff.

ds3 does this too. He can hold a poo for 3-4 days. I know he is holding it back but by day 4 I sit with him reading a book to distract him from the pain as it is very clearly hurting him to get it out.

He waggles his legs around and says "hut, hurt" and after about 5 mins of this he does the most enormous poo you have seen in your life.

I think the key is not to stress (easier said than done!) about it or make it an issue. I know this is really hard but it really is worth keeping it all low key. ds is getting better at going of his own accord but it has been a battle. I have finally stopped making a drama out of going for a poo and it seems to be making him less stressed too.

MAybe a sticker after doing the poo would be an incentive? Even if they say they don't want it, do it anyeway. It's a postitive reinforcement that will have an effect even if it doesn't seem like it.

Maybe slipping some lactulose or other meds is the way to go too, in order to make it easier.

Hi, I'm not a fan of movical - it made me very windy - but have heard it's very good.

What helped my daughter is some cranial osteopath & then sodium docusate. Add to milk twice a day (or as prescribed) & did the trick.

If you want some movical I have stacks of it, all in date.

perhaps easier, get him to eat a punnet of strawberries/kiwis/pineapples/couple of apples

No bananas

cookiem good luck with the new approach. should,ve made it clear, my dd1 does def have a psychological problem, which was greater last year, and has been exaccerbated by a physical prob. she too would lie down for days to alleviate the feeling of needing 'to go' and for a while were housebound, she was terrified to even go near the bathroom at one point.
she def has the problem described by another poster- sorry dont recall your name, about soft poo going around a blockage. THIS time it is a bit more physical, but the point i need to make is that LAST year's anxiety almost certainly has left her with a tendancy for the anus of overstrech , leaving a'pouch' of intestine that fills up with trapped poo. soft stuff then flows past, but bowel isnt really empty. THIS IS relevant cookiem cos i reckon that its the holding on to poo that caused the bowel to stretch in the first place. doc seems to agree. good luck.

Hi 7up, i researched encopresis and this is not what my DS has but thanks for thinking about it. Basically this is a problem where children over the age of 4 do not know the signs when they need to go the loo for a poo. My DS does know when he needs to go, he just WONT go! He hangs on to it for dear life and then some escapes out.

Littlefish, i do believe it is possible to have constipation and have bits escaping round the sides, the doc has now reffered us to a speacialist and i hope we can rule things like this out but thanks for your input.

Rosie, take it from one who knows - dont force the issue or you will end up in my situation, just relax about it, i know the mistake i made we were too focused on him pooing in the potty and made too much fuss and now he just doesn't want to do it. Good luck hope he settles down for you.

Hey ghosty, DS is 3 1/2 and the thought of putting a nappy on him horrified him! that is just for his little sister! He has plenty of fruit and juice but once again thanks for input

Kaz33, i've tried explaining time and time again about where your food goes, i may try the book you suggested. We did buy him a book called everybody poos but this hasn't influenced him in anyway, we can only try. As for dehydration, he drinks more than enough so he's fine on that score. cheers

Hi jamie sam, sounds like you need to increase his fluids and fibre/fruit. dont know what difference it would make having juice instead of water? maybe someone else can help with that? good luck

queen, it doesn't appear to hurt him when he goes which is why i dont think its physical. we do keep carrying on with the rewards in the hope one day it will get through to him, you never know!!

noonar, you really have been through it and it sounds exactly like what we are going through. you are right, it is very relevant, i am scared that he will damage himself if he keeps hanging on to it but how do you expain that to a 3 year old? i cant force him to go the toilet as this just makes him more upset!! arghhh! how did you get your dd to go in the end?

lol to all, thanks a million for sharing this

cookiem, we used the odd glycerine sepository to clear the big build- up of poo that was too large to pass comfortably. by then the lactulose was kicking in so subsequent poos were easier to pass. this made the holding on to the poo harder to keep up, as it was so loose-iyswim. once a few loose poos were passed, she began to realise that it wasnt painful always, and that if you push 'em out before they get too big, it hurts less. anxiety then reduced. i also stopped treating her like an invalid, to nursery about it , and tried to kep life as normal, despite poo pains. we even went back to taking a potty to the park- age 31/2! as the poos were fast and loose for a while! but as least it wasnt ruling our lives.

also, we only give semi skimmed milk as whole milk clogs them up. others beware, tho-only ok if over 2yo.

hey noonar, think i'm gonna try the lactulose again, nothing else is working, the only fear i have is that if he keeps soiling himself will his self confidence go down the pan or will it spur him on the poo properly in the toilet? I did speak to him rather sternly today about he must go to the toilet after he had pooed himself twice, he did ask to go on the third attempt but had already passed the point where he felt the need to go and had done some in his pants and a very small amount in the toilet. He then just held onto the rest as usual.

I'm gonna stop treating him with kid gloves now and give him the lactulose and stop fussing over him so much when he does do a holding in thing. I've tried everything else under the sun and the nicey nicey approach doesn't work, i don't think it could get much worse!! lets wait and see hey! thanks for you help and good luck with your little girl, i hope she improves for you .

ps, he has been on semi skimmed milk since he was 2 so ruled that out. He doesn't seem particularly constipated but when he holds it in for days and then finally releases it is very big but he never says it hurts him? who knows what goes through their tiny minds hey?

cookiem, if you don't mind me saying - lactulose isn't the best thing for your little one.

The sodium docusate is great because it has a different effect on the poo. The lactulose makes the poo sludgy - never worked for my DD - whereas the sodium docusate seems to make it easier to pass.

Please PLEASE give this a go - the drs prescribe it easily enough & you can add a couple of tsp to his milk & he'll never know.

I was also told by a peadatrician not to use lactulose.

mojomummy and cece, thanks for your advice, this was the only thing offered to me and i didn't know any different but i will ask them to try this new stuff, i know mumsnet is a worlwide site, where are you based? is it the uk? if not, i may have trouble getting it on prescription but i can ask.

Going back to the update with him pooing and me being firm with him, so far he has asked to go for a poo 3 times in 36hours!! (he pooed himself on twice these occasions and had one success in the loo but this is progress for him to be asking!) what do you think about that!! i'm so shocked, it may just be another phase he's going through and total coincidence but we are going to keep it up! i'm not shouting at him or telling him he is naughty or anything like that just talking to him in an adult voice instead of being all nicey nicey and telling him he must go for a poo on the toilet like all other big boys and girls and i only ask him once if he needs a poo when i see him straining. I do think now it is attention seeking although i was so scared to ignore him in the beggining for fear that it would damage him i think i actually made things worse! go figure that then!! I'll keep you all posted over the next couple of days to see how the new experiment is going, as for the lactulose i'm going to give it a go until i can get an appointment wiht my doc (prob end of week). cheers again for all support and advice

Do you want some movicol ? I can send you some sachets on monday if you are interested, until you get a drs appointment ?

yes please mojomummy, can you email me at [email protected] and we'll sort out payment and stuff, i have a paypal account or can send you a cheque. cheers

movicol is magic stuff, it has sorted my dd out really well, she used to have terrible problems

However I really wouldn't give it to him without visiting your gp or paed first. It is available in the uk

He may well have to be on it for a year in decreasing doses.

I think your right countess, mojomummy, i think i will leave it for now, my husband has an appointment at docs on thursday so maybe he could discuss it with her then instead of getting a seperate appointment in 2 weeks time!! thanks for the offer, i think countess is right, i don't know how to use it or anything. never thought about that - just so focused on getting him to poo!!!

call the surgery, tell them that it is very acute and ask for an emergency appointment

Just replied to you without reading all the post. I read about movical being used in the US.

I saw a private consultant - the Dr's are SO reluctant to give anything other than lactulose & yet when you see the specialist, they don't recommend it at all.

good luck & I hope you get to see the Dr ASAP.

Hi mojomummy, i spoke to my DS's nurse today who came to see me when we first starting asking for help. I asked her about the movicol and she said it was fine to use and i could just ask for a prescription for him next time i go. I have replied to your email and gave you my address if you could forward some on to me with instructions that would be great. ta :-)

it is deffo a phsycological problem but at least if i give him the movicol when he eventually lets it go it shouldn't be that bad for him to pass. cheers guys x

Dont know if anyone is still reading this page but my DS toilet habbits have gotten even worse. His teacher has now told us about a mental health service at our local hospital (alder hey) which they can refer us to so the letter has been wrote and hopefully the waiting list isn't too long. Lets hope we can get to the bottom of why he doesn't like to go! thanks for your help and support, feels much better to get it off my chest and also to know i'm not the only one going through it.

Hi cookiem, Have just come onto mumsnet after a very long time, and found your post.

My own daughter has had ongoing constipation to the point of becoming encopresis.

When a child suffers constipation for a very long time, the bowel widens, and basically becomes weak, like a balloon that has perished....thus the bowel is unable to empty, also because of the distention the nerve impulses are often not felt correctly.

It is a huge problem, and does take a very long time to get over. With pyschological problems possibly longer...you will need good medical input, from maybe more than one source to get the help necessary for your child.

Have a look here , this is another website I belong to that is just wonderful support for families affected by encopresis. And I say families, because it really does affect whole families, due to the huge pressure it puts upon the child and carer.

Best wishes
Rosebudz.

Oh cookie', by the way, sometimes offering the child a balloon to blow whilst they are sitting on the toilet or potty can help them poo...I know it sounds weird, BUT, it helps with the correct use of the muscles in the correct order needed to poo... Have a trial, it may well just help the situation a little.

Can someone tell me why Lactulose is not liked by your doctors over there????It is THE medicine over here NZ.

It is deemed to be one of the safest medicines for constipation, working by simply attracting water into the poo, thus keeping it soft, rather than loosing the water and hardening.