How to deal with inappropriate touching

[BerstieSpotts]

DS is driving me mad at the moment. He has a thing about smacking my bum or just generally trying to touch my bottom. I do not know how many times I have explained that it's inappropriate and we don't touch people there, he thinks it's funny and does it for a reaction out of me. The problem is that it does make my skin crawl so invariably, he gets one. If I ignore him then he just repeats and repeats it until I do something. I cannot stand there and let him carry on.

He is 5, BTW. We don't smack him, he got the idea from a "funny" game a relative plays. Please help me find a solution to this, it's making me feel so utterly helpless and shit, that I can't even uphold my boundaries against a 5 year old. Threats don't work, removing myself is not always possible, talking to him about it has not made a difference.

Can you put him in his room? take away a toy or computer time?

Could you just try rigidly ignoring it?

Also, what kind of a game you relative plays? Do you mean with your DS? That sounds a bit odd.

What is the "funny" game, OP? Has someone else done this to your ds?

If so, that needs to stop first. You can't tell him it's wrong for him to smack you or touch you if an adult is doing it to him.

Yes aleene I do all of those (although it's been happening for over a year now so doesn't seem to be working) and also I can't do them while we're out. Threats for future don't work in this situation. I got so irritated by it today that I ended up threatening more and more and then, when I was at the point that I realised the punishment was way out of line he carried on and I had nothing. I was almost in tears when I got home.

The punishment today (that kept escalating) was that he lost out on the game we were going to play (this was for running away near a road, and then messing about at the tram stop, dropping rubbish on the floor and refusing to pick it up, etc) and then when the bum-smacking game started and didn't stop, I told him he had to go to his room from when we got home until bedtime, only coming out for dinner. This was 1.5 hours and FAR too long, far far longer than I would ever send him there but I said it, so I had to do it - and then finally I told him that I was taking away his sweets which he'd bought himself. Again, complete no-no, not something I would usually do but I was feeling desperate. He was upset about this until he realised I was only taking one bag of sweets and then he started saying "Oh it's ok, you can have those ones, I don't mind!" as though he was doing me a favour, grrrrrrrr! It's not a negotiation, it's a punishment!

The game is like where she (auntie) chases him saying "I'm gonna smack ya bum, smack ya bum!" He's not scared, it's just a fun/funny game to him. It's not a game I would play - not really my personality, but a lot of adults play this kind of thing with children.

I'd sit him down and explain that if a person doesn't want to be touched, then it's v unkind to carry on doing it. (Sounds like you've done this bit). If he can be kind to you and leave your bottom alone for a whole day, then you will reward that with an extra bedtime story (or whatever else works).

When he does it, get down to his level, look him in the eye and say calmly, it makes me sad when you do that, please be kind with your hands.

I would then use 1,2,3. Don't know if you use it anyway, but basically remain emotionless (at least outwardly) and say 1, if he does it again, say 2 (even if it's half an hour later), then 3 and then time out or other sanction, put him in his room and hold the door shut if need be. Do it as often as you need to. Just keep the emotion out of it.

He's doing it because he gets a reaction, you know that.

No idea if it'll work, just the way I'd approach it.

But good point about it being a double standard, that I'm saying this part of the body is private and nobody touches it, yet his aunty incorporates it in a game.

However, we have talked about how different families have different rules and he has accepted this before. And it's not just "We don't touch bums" that I want him to learn, but also (probably more importantly) "If somebody's telling you they don't like something, stop and don't do it to them again". I think that's the part that's really upsetting me in particular, the fact that he's not responding to me saying I don't like this. It's a bit of a theme with us at the moment :(

We also used to live very close to the aunt and now live much further away - not because of that issue though! But it means he doesn't see her very often now whereas he used to.

I have done a similar approach to that Barberry although I haven't challenged him to go a whole day. Partly because he goes through periods of not doing it at all and partly because I know his reaction would be "When am I allowed to touch your bum again?" and saying "Never" sort of negates the one day challenge thing.

I have tried speaking calmly to him when he does it rather than kicking off or getting annoyed and he just thinks the whole thing is hysterical - he will laugh in my face or say that he thinks it is a nice/kind thing to do, or start talking in nonsense syllables because he doesn't want to talk about it properly.

He does it much less at home, or when DP is around, I've just realised. Perhaps because I/we can be consistent when this happens. But when I'm out of the house on my own with him I can't do anything at all. I can't enforce distance from us when there's nowhere safe to put him, he will just follow me. I don't have a lot to take off him when we're out, maybe a promised treat of the trip, and once I've taken one thing away then that's it, my whole arsenal used up. He knows this so he just carries on. He's got nothing more to lose, so why not? I can't always just take him home - today we were on the way home and he carried on doing it over about half a mile's walk. When he got bored of hitting me he started hitting me with his bag instead, which I took off him. He shows me far less respect than he shows anybody else and it's shit. I don't know how to get him to respect me more. I'm sure threatening him and screaming like a banshee when he winds me up isn't helping.

That sounds relentless and horrible. He's bullying you. This would be zero tolerance for me.

I'd go with trying to do something nice regularly with him (swimming or cycling etc) where you can bond a bit.

Could you also do some more cuddling? Is it possible he wants more physical contact with you? Or even doing some rough play with strict rules?

But then go with 1,2, 3 (as per the 1,2,3 Magic book) and find an appropriate consequence. I've done time outs in the middle of tesco but Ds is only 3.3 so fully aware this may not be workable for a 5 year old.

I feel very sorry for you. Get your dp on board and find a way to stop this. Even if that means getting some professional help.

I think I do need to up the physical contact. I read a book ages ago which was about why certain issues bother us more than others (regarding parenting) and that was something that came up. I've just started work so am out a lot more than he's used to, so perhaps we need to do this.

I didn't start time out type things early enough with him for him to stay where he is. So it's a no go. It works at home, but not when we're out. Things are improving with DP around more, he's been able to talk to him about how his behaviour affects me and has seemed to make him think about it a bit more, but you're right, it is bullying, and it feels horrible from such a small child. I would like to be zero tolerance but if I can't physically stop or prevent him from doing something I don't know what to do or how to deal with it.

I'm just gutted TBH :( we used to have such a close relationship until he turned 3. The last two years have been generally crap.

FWIW I'm just finishing the no cry discipline solution and find it very enlightening. Makes you think about where the behaviour is coming from.

I'm far from a perfect parent but i recognise i was parented badly so i read lots to try to find a better way.

How to talk is also excellent of course.

And if nothing else I'd definitely call a halt to any pretend slapping games from auntie or anyone else.

If funds allow maybe a child psychologist would point you in the right direction for getting your relationship back on track. You sound so sad in your posts.

I think this incident today really made me feel like we are going backwards which is not true, to give the background (sorry if this feels like drip feeding)

We have just moved from the UK to Germany (about a month ago) so that is a lot of upheaval for him. He is settling in well and doing fantastically so I think that some behavioural difficulty is totally understandable. We had a lot of anger coming out which seems to be decreasing.

Before this I was on my own with him for 15 months, DP being here, us being in the UK. I was struggling quite a bit with depression (on and off for the last few years) and working long hours, although this was 2-4 days a week. During this time there was a period of 3 months where I was doing an intensive course and working, and DS was out of the house from 9-7 5 days a week. That was tough on both of us.

I struggled massively with his behaviour when I was on my own. This was probably the time where it went downhill the most. I ended up feeling quite disconnected from him and this is where the "sad" feelings started I suppose.

For about 6 months before coming to Germany I realised that part of our problem was that I was not always consistent or predictable. I started to be firmer and more consistent and put in place a system of rewards (stars leading to a prize) and punishments (losing TV time and time out but time out used more sparingly.) I found that anything which involves a battle of force, e.g. trying to get him to stay in his room, becomes a game/battle to him. The TV time sanction worked because I could just say it and it was in place, I didn't have to physically do anything, except maybe take the TV remote off him.

When we came here, my system fell apart, partly due to having less TV access in general, and partly because DP is here who DS seems to naturally respect and listen to more. Even so, there was an obvious and understandable backlash from DS and even DP was finding it harder.

So now, we're in this sort of stalemate where DS is fine, not perfectly behaved, but I would say normal for his age in boundary pushing behaviour when DP and I are both around, and to some extent when I am alone at home with him. We have established a "calm down corner" of the living room and this is working very well, the star system is still in place but the prizes have changed.

I get stuck when I am in sole charge and I have to enforce some kind of consequence. If there is something logical like him missing out on something that's about to happen or I can put him in his room, then that's fine. But I am lost when it comes to general rudeness/cheekiness/personal behaviour towards me. I just don't know how to deal with it. I have lost my sanction that worked (TV time) and especially when we are out, I have nothing.

However, being here in general is having a positive effect. Our relationship in general is improving. I can only hope that the crap he is giving me will reduce and eventually stop in relation to this, but in the meantime I don't feel like I can just let him do it. When we were in the UK I did actually get to a point where I just avoided going out with him. This sounds ridiculous, but it is what happened. Here, if we are all together then family outings are fine and if something comes up then either DP or I can deal with it, it's more when I am on my own.

I think this in particular gets me down because I feel like I should be able to deal with it.

I do like to read and I was going to order a book I saw called "Back Talk" which is supposed to help deal with this particular issue. I find I am fine with other things I want to establish but I struggle with this one. I suppose I feel I can't make him respect me and if he doesn't, then I'm doing something very badly wrong somewhere.

I think I need to tell him I love him more :( I don't think I say it out loud very often, I often kiss and cuddle but I've just realised I hardly ever say it, even when saying goodnight or dropping him off at kindergarten or somewhere. I used to find it really hard and for some reason it made me feel squirmy/embarrassed to say it to my own parents even though I did and do love my mum very much. I wrote her a letter once when I was a teenager telling her that I loved her even though I found it hard to say and it made her cry

Shit, I can't believe I've just realised that. I tell DP I love him all the time but I hardly ever say the words to my own son :(

You're trying and working on ways to improve things. That's really important.

We have a bit of a love fest each night. After story time we cuddle and talk about the best bits of the day and then i ask Ds how much he thinks i love him and he measures it bigger and bigger with his hands until his arms are wide stretched and then i say and more. I tell him i love him 20+ times a day.

Just start saying it. It'll become so easy so very fast.

And absolutely anything he does that's good or kind do make a huge fuss of. Sounds like he has good reason to be unsettled and will need lots of positive reinforcement. And if he's in games then play lots, the ones with rules. He'll learn so much from his and hopefully you'll get some quality time too.

If you think about your last 2 posts from his perspective, that's an awful lot for a little boy to deal with. Shower him with love, it'll do you both good.

Very into board games at the moment. We also do things like add extra rules to snakes and ladders to change it up, it's fun. Must make more time for this I think :)

I've heard about 'love bombing' on here before but I don't know much about it. Perhaps a search for it might show if it could be something you could use? hope I have not just recommended something along the lines of dragon butter

Sorry to hear you are struggling.
I really do admire your tenacity and focus on improving things.

Re love - my 5 year old DS likes it when I tell him why I love him eg brave, funny, kind. I enjoy giving him examples of when I saw him do x. Apparently he loves me because I let him do things I said he couldn't !

We also do best bit of the day before he goes to bed.

I do think there is an element of choosing your battles. Not that bum smacking is acceptable.

I read once about how negative it can be for children to be constantly repremanded for basically being a typical 5/6/7 year old etc. So with DS I try to ignore the willy and bum talk as long as it isn't too loud or near anyone who might complain but I will pick him up on other stuff.

Parenting is so hard. I hope you find some solutions soon. Have some