Seriously starting to feel like *I* am the problem with my DS

[YoniBottsBumgina]

DS will be 5 in a few days. He hasn't just started school, but the big relevant piece of information is that about a month ago we moved country, so he is having to deal with new house, new kindergarten, new language. Obviously this is a big thing for him, and I expect his behaviour to reflect this. That's fine.

But there is such a big difference between how he acts for me and how he acts for DP, and most of the behaviours reserved for me aren't new, they were happening back in the UK and they have just escalated now.

I think the problem is genuinely me. He isn't perfectly behaved for DP, but if DP tells him off he at least seems to take it in, with me he tries to fight back! It's like he sees me as a sibling, rather than a parent - he even says to me sometimes, if I impose a consequence on him "I'll tell Daddy when he gets home and he will tell you off!" and tries my own words back at me "Mummy you took my toy and put it on the shelf, we don't do that, that isn't nice." (I'd put it on the shelf because he was hitting me with it!) or threatens "Well, if you put me in my room then you don't get to go on your computer!" - I'm always at a loss as to how to deal with these as well. I explain to him that it doesn't work that way and that he is a child and I am an adult but it doesn't change anything.

It's really getting me down, and the worst part is that I can see I DO go into sibling mode with him. I can't seem to help it, it's just my natural way to react to him. I don't know if it's because I had him young and didn't know any other parents and the only form of reference of young child I have is my sister, but I can hear it myself - my voice goes whiny like a teenager saying "Just leave me alone!"

DP just seems to know what to do and how to deal with things and I seem to make them worse. I started reading a book called "When your kids push your buttons" which was helping me not react to stuff as impulsively, but I still can't seem to get to the mindset of finding my inner parent, I just default back to this childish way of being with him.

Yes I realise that, I'm looking for advice on how not to act that way.

DP just gets a totally different reaction than I do. He reckons it's tone of voice as he has a "dog voice" which he uses when he's being firm which seems to get more response. But I seem to have normal, pleady/whiny (which I hate but I don't realise I'm doing it at the time) or shouting. Which, TBH, sometimes works, but I don't want to be shouty either.

For an example of the reaction, DP has been getting DS up for kindergarten in the mornings while I stay in bed. He gets him up about 20 minutes before they have to leave, he eats some cereal, gets dressed and they go. I think this is incredible because he just wouldn't do that in 20 minutes for me. This morning I happened to be awake when he was getting DS up, and DS was all "Help me get dressed mummy, I need help" and then when I asked him to choose a t-shirt insisted on laying them all out on the floor. I got slightly agitated and said "Come on, just choose one, we don't have time!" (if it was me getting him ready then I would have left more time anyway). He says he needs help and then he stands there doing nothing, even if I go to help him get dressed, which he really doesn't need, he then starts messing around and not co-operating, but if I say I'm not helping him then he starts whining and crying and lying on the floor in a heap saying he can't do it. This takes even longer so I end up dressing him but irritably.

I asked DP when he got to work if DS was normally like that in the mornings and he said no, he tells him to get dressed, DS goes into his room and gets a t-shirt and DP says "Okay that one looks good!" and DS just GETS DRESSED by himself with no drama or whining or ANYTHING. Why won't he do that for me?!

As for general behaviour management we both do warnings/outlining expectations before things happen, counting to 3, I prefer to use logical consequences or problem solving, we have a "calm down corner" and if necessary he gets sent to (well, carried to and put in) his room, with the threat that if he comes out of the room or keeps talking to us then his stash of sweets will go in the bin - sounds ridiculous but he was turning it into a game, where he would open and close the door and laugh, or constantly ask "When can I come out?" it was starting with DP as well.

We also have a "star system" where he can earn stars for specific good behaviours which sometimes works and sometimes he says he doesn't care about getting stars.

He was fine until he turned 3, we had a great relationship [weeps]

If anyone has any more thoughts on this I'd really appreciate it :)

It sounds like a tough situation. I think it's especially difficult because you see your DH getting desirable behaviour from your son, but you feel like you can't get the same thing. I think it's fine to have slightly different ways of parenting and handling things, but I do recognise that you would like your parenting to be more effective.

Would it be helpful to set more clear boundaries and expectations? So when it comes time to choose a tshirt, give him the choice of two, not all. Give him a few seconds to make his choice and then if he dawdles, tries to distract or anything like that, count to three and at three you choose the tshirt. I use this technique with my son for almost any situation where I need him to make a choice or want him to stop dawdling. He knows that when I get to three, his choice is made for him. So he'll usually make the choice before I get to three.

What also helps is to use a firm voice (an actor's voice, clear and slightly loud without shouting) and use short phrases. So "tshirt on, now!" (I tend to use a slightly silly voice, or maybe with a smile, so I don't sound all slave-driver like), or "teeth brushing!" etc etc. My DS seems to respond better to this than being asked politely in a very long sentence (he just zones off).

I'd really recommend reading the book How To Talk So Kids Will Listen, And Listen So Kids Will Talk. I'm fairly sure my advice is based on the stuff in that book. It's really helpful and practical.

Okay so for routine, while my kids are in the bath at night I go to their rooms and shut curtains, put on fairy lights, and lay out tomorrow's clothes. Then out bath, two stories, and sleep.

If they want to swap the clothes, they lose a story. Clothes must be set out at night, this is not a morning activity.

If they are good in the morning (get dressed, open curtains, fairy lights off, "make bed"), they can choose what to have for breakfast, and the route/ method of transport for going to nursery/ school (car/scooter or walk). If they are extra good we sometimes ditch breakfast and buy a croissant and a banana at the shop, and eat it in the playground - treat for us all lol.

If they play up etc., I will drag their clothes onto them, spoonfeed them their breakfast and shout at them. AIn't noone perfect here! But most days it goes just fine. The bad days, I remind them at bath time what a crappy morning we had, and offer them 50p each if we can have a good morning tomorrow. Sometimes I buy new toys in and put them on a shelf and tell them that is what they are earning - ten stars and it's theirs.

If I feel myself getting moany and crap-mum, I say "you are doing my head in. I will be back in a minute when i am ready to deal with your bad behaviour." And I walk out (and swear at the wall) When I go in again I smile and say, "are we ready to do it nicely this time?" and if they still aren't then I put on my sarcastic-patient voice and we get through it without anyone losing the plot.

Don't beat yourself up, and don't feel inadequate to your paretner. if your ds says "i'll tell daddy on you" you answer, "honey daddy is on my side. He will back me up. We both want you to do this, and if I tell him how rude you're being he will be so disappointed in you. We love you, and we want you to show us that you know how to be a good boy"

Just my thoughts, good luck.

Thank you, that sounds constructive.

Yes I think perhaps I did give him too much choice this morning. He is going through a very particular about his clothes phase though, and I know that if I try to put a time limit on him choosing and counting to 3 - which sounds like my kind of approach :) - it ends up leading to huge screaming fits which I am utterly shit at dealing with in the morning. (Although, to be fair, I have not attempted mornings with DP around for a LONG time, perhaps at this point he would then take over or at least come and back me up. Hmm.)

I have How To Talk! I have been meaning to re-read it since he was only a toddler the last time I read it through.

I like the idea of each stage leading on to the next and the next stage being dependent on behaviour even if it's just a small difference. We already do this with stories and method of getting to sleep.

Also your answer for when he starts being cheeky is a good one. I could definitely say something along those lines. The only thing I would struggle with in your post is walking out, because in the past when I have done this, he follows me which is even more infuriating. But then, this was the idea of the calm down corner, that anybody could use it.

I am feeling more positive :)

Good, be positive and just remember not to beat yourself up about it. Sign of a good parent is wanting to make things better, and admitting we are not perfect! So you can know that you are a good mum x

You get dressed son, or you go as you are.

You eat your breakfast, or you go hungry.

And carry it through.

Kids just love to play up their parents, and he is playing you like a good 'un. Just stick to what you say and eventually he will know you really really mean it.

Sounds logical enough FlapJack, but it's too cold here in the mornings to take him out half dressed, and I wouldn't want to leave him hungry without a good chance to eat (at five!) because they start at 7.30 and don't eat again until 9.30. This is a fairly standard sized breakfast but then they have nothing until 12.30/1pm when they have a snack of bread and fruit and that is it until they get picked up which can be 2pm.

I do do similar sort of related consequences, although try to frame them positively, for example tonight in the bath I said if he was good when I was washing his body/hair then we'd have time for 3 stories, the implication being that if he messed around he'd lose stories, and he was fine.

AT 5 he will learn that he has to wait till 9.30 if he messes about and doesn't eat at home. He will earn that he gets cold if he doesn't get dressed. You can always put his winter coat on him as you leave the flat/ house.

My 3 yr old says things like "you'll have to go on the naughty step" it just makes me want to laugh to be honest!
All I can suggest is to try hard not to engage in that conversation. Impose the consequence and walk away. Don't speak to him after you've explained (maybe twice) what the consequence is for.

I agree with less choice, make the choices things youwant.
I really would try and worry less about the breakfast. My DD takes forever to eat in the morning. She just doesn't really want it. I do worry and push her to eat something before she goes to preschool but she never moans that she is hungry. They get a small snack at about 10:30.
Either he gets hungry for a few days and learns to eat his breakfast or he's one of those people that doesn't really need breakfast.
What if you gave him a bit more control. Choose and 'make' his own breakfast. I'm thinking cereal/fruit/yoghurt not a full English!
Choose and layout his clothes the night before.
How about practising your 'mum' voice on your DP? Like they do on Supernanny?.!
The best thing about all this is that you are aware where you could make some improvements and are willing to make changes.

I'm watching this thread with a lot of interest as things are very similar with my 3yo DD.
If anything I'm stricter with her, but she seems to be happy to comply with DH but not me. They're both as stubborn as anything so it's amazing they've not clashed TBH.

I do try the 'tried and tested' methods but none of them seem effective with me yet. So, if I give DD the choice of two outfits, she'll insist she wants a different one and choose the least practical - like a summer dress in October complete with flip flops. If I insist on one of the two, she'll scream "I don't WANT to!" for ages until it reaches a full-on meltdown. I have been close to tears on many occasions.

The only thing that has worked is figuring out a surprising consequence that she doesn't believe I'll carry out. So, "if you don't do X by the time I get to 3 you go on the naughty step" doesn't bother her in the least. "If you don't get dressed/brush your teeth by the time I get to 3 I'll do it for you" just ends up in a wrestling match with a screaming, sobbing DD at the end of it.
What does work is "if you don't get undressed for your bath by the time I get to 3, I'll put you in as you are." On the occasions I've done it she's been really surprised I've followed through, and it's been OK afterwards - it doesn't harm her, but it's a clear consequence for messing around. "Now that's a bit silly, isn't it? Shall we get you undressed now and it'll be a lot nicer? That's why I ask you to get undressed first." Unfortunately showing the consequences of not brushing teeth is a lot harder, but that if nothing else works.

I get 'I'll tell Daddy on you' too, but I do the broken-record "Daddy would say exactly the same thing". Latest development is "I hate you and I want you to go away for ever and ever!", which hurts like hell but I do try the calm response of "Well, that's a pity, because I love you and I'd miss you if I went away". Sod all use at the moment, but I hope it works long term. Generally five minutes later she's forgotten all about it anyway.

It sounds like your DP is getting a smoother ride because your DS doesn't get as much of a reaction from him. Three year olds are really clever little things, and if he can get you to dress him by being a PITA then it's a win for him.

It's all about thinking of some "scripts" to use and then repeating them over and over and over until its the natural response and you aren't showing your frustration.

If he refuses to get dresses then take the clothes with you and if he is cold then he can wear them. If he doesn't eat his breakfast then take a piece of toast with you and he can eat it in the car. If he gets cold or hungry or wet because he refuses to do something (and you are offering him the opportunity to change his mind) then that's his choice. It's not a reflection on you and after you follow through for a while he will stop pushing the point so much.

If my three year old starts talking back (not sure what to call it, being cheeky etc!) then I try to listen to him and acknowledge his feelings a la How To Talk, then reinforce the reason why I have behaved like that. Ie "I can see that you are feeling really cross that I have taken your toy away and put it on the shelf. I took your toy away because you were hitting me with it. Hitting is not kind. Lets go and do x instead and you can have your toy back tomorrow"

I also use "I don't like the way you are behaving. Please stop or will happen". Occasionally it is "you are not behaving nicely and you are making me feel very cross. I am going to drink gin go in the other room for five minutes and I hope when I come back we can both talk nicely to each other again. Otherwise we might need to spend the day doing boring jobs instead of going to the park>

mainly it's the gin

To be honest, it sounds like he gets a lot of attention from you for his awkward, irritating behaviour. Standing and watching your 5 year old get every T-shirt out, and then getting annoyed is handing all the control to him.

I have 3 DC (which may be easier, as you can focus on the one being good). DD1 is 6, and also very awkward at getting ready in the morning. I say to her 'go and get your pants on dd, and then come and show me'. She either does, in which case I'll give her a quick squeeze and a well done, before sending off for T-shirt, them trousers, jumper etc. Or she doesn't, in which case I totally ignore her.

The most useful piece of advice I have ever received is that the behaviour that gets attention is the behaviour you get the most of. I very rarely have to 'punish'my DC because I do 3 things; tell them what I want them to do (not want I don't want, eg stop at the next lamp post rather than don't run off), show them want I want them to do (don't whine and argue, or they will too ) and praise them when they're doing what I want.

While dp is about, and ds is getting ready nicely, notice and praise him.

I'm rambling now, is my bedtime

First of all stop feeling inadequate and stop blaming yourself. You said you had him young so you too can't be expected to be perfect from the start. We learn about motherhood during the course of bringing kids up and we are always learning. Like someone has said here, he should know that mom and dad are on one side and he can't play one against the other. This is what kids do if they get a chance. Be very affirmative while dealing with him. Don't dominate but let him know who's the boss here. And yes, don't forget to praise him and be appreciative when he does what you want.

Hi
It can get better. I think a large part of this is you lack belief in yourself - and your ds knows it. My dd isn't this old yet but in my job I see and interact with tons of families and there is a very clear distinction btwn the parents who mean what they say and deliver consequences and those whose words fall on deaf ears. Ie the 'don't do that darling' parents who repeat the same phrase as their child gets wilder, and the ones who get down to eye level with the kid and say firmly 'if you do that again you will be in time out'
You need to decide what your boundaries are and you must deliver consequences. You are the adult. You are in charge. And tell yourself this every day.
Whilst I agree that it would be hard for him if he didn't eat till 9.30 - it's not going to hurt him and he will suddenly learn to take you seriously. If he won't get changed let him go to kg in his pyjamas. The problem I think is your boundaries are too soft. He knows you won't really deliver a consequence. Try watching super nanny Jo frost. I think her techniques will work well for you.
Oh and one more thing: plan your responses. You know there are some things that always play out the same way, eg not eating on time. Decide in advance what your response and consequences are : you will give him eg 2warnings and then times up and he goes to school. He won't be screaming at school so don't worry. Then at hometime have a nice cuddly time and talk about the morning - what your expectations are of him
Good luck

Oh and as with everything child related it will take time to change habits so don't give up after the first try

Let us know how you get on

Thanks all.

TBH the mornings aren't an issue anyway. DP does weekday mornings currently, it was just that I noticed what a massive difference there was the one morning I happened to be around, and it seemed like a good example.

I DO follow through on consequences but I don't want my whole life to be spent shouting "Do this or else!" It's when he totally ignores my request or does the opposite of it, or seems to try to wind me up on purpose that I get cross.

We have had some success with a calm down corner, but my problem is if I go elsewhere to get space, he just follows me. Also, things like, DP looked after DS the other afternoon while I went to bed because I wasn't feeling well. DS went off to play in his room and came back, helped DP with a bit of making dinner, then disappeared off again quite happily. When it's just me and him, if I try to do a job, he comes in and says he wants to help but then does the opposite - like the other day he wanted to help me put the washing away. I offered him a pile of clothes to take through to his room, but instead he lay on the bed and rolled all over the piles, then started throwing them on the floor. I'm afraid I shouted at him and then shut him out of the room because he had just infuriated me so much by undoing all of the work I'd started to do.

I have just started a new job this week so exhausted as well, so hoping things will settle down as we all settle into a new routine.