Help! My 3yo is going to break me!

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3.5 DS is an intelligent, lovely, bright little boy. But, over the last few months he has become a little monster behaviour wise and this has been exacerbated by the arrival of DS2 (3 months). He is going to break me! He argues about EVERYTHING, fights against everything, sulks, screams, shouts, hits - you name it, he does it. We've tried stickers, positive reinforcements and taking toys away - nothing seems to get through!

He is also refusing to potty train (we've been trying for NINE MONTHS now) - he has never to date said he needs to go, but would go when asked by us. Now this has also become a battle ground and I am worn out from fighting with him and washing endless pants. Nursery have advised we just stick it out this time (This is our second time trying potty training). If we try to put him back in nappies, he gets really upset. I know he's ready, but can't decide if it's laziness (doesn't want to be bothered going to the loo), forgetfulness (gets so engrossed in playing he forgets to go) or it's become a tool to get attention (so I have to change his pants etc.).
Is this normal? What can I do to help him manage his behaviour better? Any other 3 yo's still not "getting" potty training? Any tips for managing his behaviour while trying to look after a 3 month old? Any advice gratefully received - am at my wits' end!

He's being a monster because he's a bright little three year old with boundaries to test AND beacuse there's a new baby to need to assert himself with. In a few months as he gets more articulate and the baby can be played with this will all fade away. To survive now though.......

Potty training - my dd1 was very resistant and we got nowhere till she was 3yrs and 6 months. When she suddenly started using the loo . It remains a mystery to me.
Somehow you've got to reduce the tension over this. You need to decide that you will not fight. If needed go in to the bedroom, close the door and scream in to a pillow but whatever puddles appear you will not give him the extra drama of the fight. Just change him and move on. Buy more pants. Lots more. He'll get bored of that eventually.

General behaviour - does he have jobs to do? Things like fetching your hairbrush or your shoes? Can you get him washing the pram wheels in the garden and arranging your tins in the cupboards? Anything that occupies his hands and then he gets praise for. Things that the new baby could possibly do. I think he's abit young for stickers. He can't reason well enough to keep to it and taking toys away will just annoy him because again he's too young to reason through it. Positive reinforcement is the way to go.

Also - can you leave the new baby with somebody for a little while and take him swimming or to the park. Some one to one time could be helpful. It is very hard though. Been there done that! Good luck!

Sorry that should be couldn't possibly do

Thanks Northernlurker - really helpful! Will try giving him jobs - think he'd love this.

The other thing we're really struggling with is going out - if we need to be somewhere by a certain time, I'll start trying to organize him well in advance. I'll explain where we're going, we'll put his shoes and socks on, try to get him to use the toilet etc. but inevitably, there's some sort of meltdown that means we're late and I end up bundling him kicking and screaming out the door/we don't go (as we'll have said "if you don't X, we won't go!"). If anyone has any tips for managing this scenario better, I'd be all ears!

I seem to spend a lot of my time issuing ultimatums and threats and it makes me a :-( as we used to have a lot of fun!

| feel your pain minx we are exactly the same at the moment, my DS is 3.2 and we are in week six of potty training (second go) and exactly the same as you, will go when asked but will just wet everywhere if left to it and withholds poo until he has his nightime pull ups on.

Last night after a lovely day doing stuff with DH we put him to bed and it was all quiet, when we went to check on him later we found he had got three of his favourite books off his shelf and ripped them to pieces!!

I cant help thinking the two are linked somehow but what to do about them I am at a loss. We left the torn books where they were so he had to face them this morning and we took his books away this morning and he wont be allowed any TV but I know he generally wont be arsed.

We have tried rewards, time out, taking things away and he just isnt bothered by any of it. I am adamant I wont smack but I'm just about at the end of my teather.

It's a really difficult age - ds1 is now 4.9yo and we came out of that phase a while ago, you'll be glad to hear. He is lovely and sweet with his little sister, 11mo.

Your ds is kicking off because he's the age that he is, and likely because dd2 has arrived and he is resisting the change and the realisation that it isn't just all about him anymore. Try not to react to him or take it personally when he kicks off, just take some deep breaths and try to speak calmly. Don't set appointments in stone, where possible, so you don't feel stressed when you are late or have to change your plans. Allow your plans for the day to be subject to change according to behaviour. Do any getting ready like getting dressed, teeth etc really early so you're not having to do lots of things just prior to trying to leave the house. Utilise soft play centres lots! (The small ones where you can sit and have a cuppa and still be able to keep an eye on your child without having to get up every 30 seconds to try to locate them in the bedlam). Small children don't feel fobbed off by soft play centres and like Mummy just wants to sit and have a break from them even though that's exactly the purpose - they just think they're great! He'll get to run around and burn off some energy which may help with his general frustrations. Praise him lots for any good behaviour - even if it's just "you've sat beautifully still to eat your toast" or "you haven't got cross at all this morning putting on your shoes!" Small children respond well to positive comments and are more likely to behave better than if they are constantly nagged, which is very tempting when they are faffing about and taking forever.

Also - peepee balls from Amazon! Chuck one down the loo and get him to aim at it. Makes going to the toilet fun, my ds1 loved them! Ds1 also liked the books Pirate Pete's Potty and Even Firefighters Need the Potty (the latter is American and calls the toilet the 'potty', but didn't matter to us). I found reading those generally helpful to encouraging ds1 to toilet train - he never liked the potty so went straight to the toilet when he was 3.

I hope it all improves for you soon! Hang on in there x

Thanks all - so good to hear we are not alone! He goes to nursery 3 days per week and I was thinking of increasing this as it's no fun for any of us being altogether at home at the moment :(. Frankly, I was getting to the point of the weekends being more than enough to deal with! Will hold off now I know this is "normal" and try some of the suggestions above. Really hope he pulls through this stage soon as I miss the fun bits of parenting...

Ds is 3.3 and DD 5m and i really understand!

Asserting independence takes the patience of a saint to manage and i long ago lost my halo! Why won't he just LISTEN!!

Anyway, things that have helped me are:
Buying 3,5 and 10 minute sand timers. 3 for time out and the others for things like leaving the house, can you put your shoes and coat on before it runs our, lets do a race against time tidy up, time left in bath... I think it works because it's so visual.

Giving choices as much as possible, would you like to put on your coat or shoes first...

Avoiding no: can i have a biscuit? Of course you can, just as soon as you've finished your dinner and fruit.

If you have time to read (!) the best books I've found are how to talk and the no cry discipline solution. Potty training for boys was excellent and had the sense to suggest bribery was the best way forward for intelligent boys and ignore any mistakes with the line "it doesn't matter, i know you're trying really hard to do all your wees and poos in the potty". Chocolate buttons - 1 for a wee, 2 for a poo, immediate reward not a chart. And make sure the potty is big enough, most aren't for a 3 yr old, or use a really secure loo seat with favourite character on. Maybe sell it as something he's big enough to do and the baby can't?
Some days its just about not murdering them though

Great ideas - I've just put those timers in my amazon basket!

Any advice on dealing with hitting? If we have time, I usually just say "we don't hit) and walk away until he's calmed down. However, he usually resorts to hitting when we HAVE to go somewhere - i.e. doctor appointment, playdate, nursery and I don't have the luxury of time. We then end up shouting at each other, while he hits more/starts throwing things/gets very upset and I feel the situation has escalated beyond all reasonable levels. I have the "how to talk" book, but the practical examples in it seem to be geared more for older children....

I agree. The no cry book is more geared towards toddlers so may be better, but I know what suits one won't suit another.

DS hits v rarely at pinnacle of tantrum, if it's gets that far. We've taken the tack of praising gentle behaviour massively, esp with his sister. I agree, just walk away whenever you can. If you can't, then would you consider a special hitting cushion? I know it's not ideal, but sometimes I think their little minds can't cope with their emotions and lashing out is all they can do, so have a special big cushion and just fetch it and punch it together. Almost guaranteed to have you both laughing, or at the least it may break the cycle.

Hitting is a big no no here too, so I am very hard on DS when he does, though it's weeks if not months now. Mummy is very disappointed and sad, it hurts to hit, we must be gentle, come and see me when you're ready to say sorry, then I walk away. At a quiet time we discuss what is good behaviour usually using a story about naughty Norman (from fireman Sam!) and what naughty things he might do and what the worst would be and why that isn't good.

The other big diffuser for us is the how to talk wish list... Sometimes when I get cross I imagine I have something nice instead, like a tree made out of chocolate etc. I only have to give 1 example now before DS joins in, but I had to do some ridiculous ones to start with.

Again though, it's all about prevention really and what I have to continually remind myself is that he doesn't give two hoots about being on time, the concept means nothing to him, so I try to give him warning of why we need to be out by the time the timer runs out. So, DS we need to go to the doctors this morning, if we get there in plenty of time you'll be able to play on mummy's phone/iPad/pop in to shop to buy magazine on the way/etc, so mummy will set the timer when there's 10 mins left and it would make me so happy if you could get your shoes and coat on before it runs out... I don't think of it as bribery, just teaching him that if he helps me, I'll reward that and be happy. Though I admit that the, if you're in the car by the time mummy counts to 5 you can have some raisins, is definite bribery, but is v useful on way to appts!

Also, regular food and exercise are essential.

Sorry, wrote too much...

And just to add to the over posting, when all reasoning fails I do use 1,2,3 as per 1,2,3 magic with as relevant a consequence as possible, or a time out if nothing relevant.

Just quickly, I found the most successful response to hitting was to completely ignore the hitter and lavish 'poor you, are you okay? X knows how to be gentle and kind but sometimes he forgets' etc on the person that was hit. So if he hits you say 'poor mummy' etc but completely ignore him.

Thanks all - have put several of these suggestions into action already today with quite a bit of success!

So far, he's been dry and clean all day (A TOTAL FIRST!!) thanks to the power of Smarties (1 for wee, 2 for poo as suggested) and lots of praise. We've headed off several tantrums with distraction and majorly praising pretty standard good behaviour and he seems really pleased with himself in his role as a "clever boy" and "great helper" today.

He is, however, resisting a nap despite needing one and I imagine by this evening, he'll be a bit "tired and emotional"...
Roll on bathtime with the two of them - that's always crunchtime. Anyone have any more great tips for juggling two kids at bath/bedtime?
I feel like I've stumbled onto the parenting oracle here :-) :-)

I often do bath time alone, so for what it's worth...

Upstairs after dinner and milk about 6.20 and close stair gate so no escaping later. Let DS play with a few toys in DDs room while bath running and I'm getting things ready. PJs and towels into bathroom with DDs nappy and sleeping bag too. Dim lights in rooms, set groclock, all ready for quiet time after bath.

Into bathroom, toilet for DS and teeth first for both (mr toothbrush with silly voice eating up all leftovers in DS's mouth) then DS into bath while I strip of DD. (No teeth and toilet = no bath) 5 mins usually if I'm alone, then DD out and dressed and into bag in bathroom while DS has some big boy bath time. Then DS out and dressed and both into his bedroom and into bed. One story in his bed while I perch on the bed and feed DD.

Cuddles, tranquil turtle on (nominally DDs but DS has pinched it!) and lights out. Then I take dd through to her room and finish her feed before putting down and going downstairs.

DS has a lidded cup in his room in case of water requirement. He's pretty good now at staying in bed and will go off within 10 mins.

I know that seems very prescriptive but if I don't have it all sorted in my head it goes horribly wrong!

Sorry, meant to say really fantastic with the potty use! Don't worry about chocolate use, DS demanded them for about 3 weeks and then just forgot all about it. Hope you continue with successes.

Do you do baby books? If so, try 'Three Shoes, No Sock and One Hairbrush: Everything you need to know about having your second child'. I found it wonderful, as it makes you realise that having your second is a huge adjustment - a massive upheaval for your firstborn, and a massive shift for you. But most people take the view that you're a second timer, so you'll be fine. The point is, this is your first time of having a second child, and it's all new. I had DS2 when DS1 was 2 years 11 months, and the first six months to a year were really tough - but the book helped hugely. The author's particularly eloquent on how you can (temporarily) fall out of love with your first child when you have your second, and that totally happened with me - I cried with relief when I read that this is quite common , and some of the reasons for it.

Having said that, DS2 is now 3 years 1 month and a bit of a handful, so it's not just having a sibling... .

OP we do bath time in the day rather at bedtime when I am tired and want to rush them through it. So in the evening all I have to concentrate on are getting into PJs, stories and teeth. I have always done this and it makes a huge difference. I see bath time as a play opportunity/activity IYKWIM? As it's the day my DD can spend as long as she wants in the water and she really enjoys it. Now she has her 4 week old DS on with her too.

*in

You don't have to bathe every day. If it is a hard day then don't!

I didn't give baby dd a bath with her brother until she was closer to 6 months. Before that I'd drag in a bouncy chair into the bathroom, stick her in there, get ds in the bath and then wipe and change dd. bedtime would consist of me feeding dd while reading to dd, sticking her in bouncy chair while getting ds into bed and staying with him until he slept and dd would usually be asleep by then too (not always).

I find that shouting at ds just makes things worse but I end up doing it when tired and out of clever tactics! Getting out of the house is always the hardest part of the day - for that reason I wouldn't increase nursery hours

Thanks! Got the 3 socks, 1 shoe book from library today and it looks great - will try to read over weekend and have put an order on the "no cry discipline" book too. Agree re bathtime not always needed and good point re getting out of the house for nursery! Feel like I have a few more tools in my kit now for dealing with the madness.

DS2 has just started sleeping through now too, which helps massively as I'm less on the edge due to sleep deprivation! However, I am finding myself lying awake for no good reason at night too, so hope that passes soon!

Hope you like the book. A word of warning - some people criticise it for painting too black a picture. Personally, I found it helpful for that very reason: the author said she didn't leave the house much for the first two years, or something, so I figured that any time I managed better than that then I was doing ok!!

On the practical front, definitely don't worry too much about bathtime; my children still go for weeks days without a proper clean. With the potty training, I wouldn't worry about bribery. I've generally never liked the whole sticker chart thing particularly, but for some reason the only thing I've used it for, with both the boys, was potty training. And it worked a treat with them both. I think maybe it seemed appropriate because potty training is a totally one-off thing (once they've learnt it, they've learnt it - it's not like trying to teach good behaviour or manners, which is ongoing), and there's really no benefit to them to managing it - both my boys were quite happy to stay in nappies for life. So somehow it seemed only fair that they should get something out of the whole process!!

And above all (sorry if this sounds patronising), try to constantly remind yourself of what a massive and (temporarily) traumatic change it is for a child to have a younger sibling. It is SOOOOOOOOOO much easier to realise this in hindsight than when you're in the middle of dealing with a monstrously behaved three year old, but certainly looking back I think it took DS1 about a year to properly adjust to having a little brother. I think you probably almost can't make too many allowances for them in those first few months.