parents who kill their kids and commit suicide

[Janny1]

I've read a e-book about this recently which has stayed with me (Night Monsters by Lauren White). I suppose it uses the idea that humans are like some other animals - if their nest is disturbed (divorce, financial problems etc) they might kill their young. And it also hints at the kind of perverse love that a suicidal parent in this situation might have because they actually believe that the best way to "take care" of their child if they are are going to commit suicide is to kill them. I feel sorry for the kids. They don't get to choose usually and the terror they must go through knowing a trusted parent is killing them was be awful. In the book I read they don't go through with it but it seems a strange phenomena in our society - I've seen more and more of it in the papers. I wondered what other parents thought about this rather taboo subject.

It's called mental illness. The reason you hear about it more is because we don't look after people well enough and resources are getting scarcer. It's why a 5th of police time is currently spent dealing with people who should be in hospital rather than cells.

Exactly Matana.

Are you talking about men or women? I think there are different motivations. Men tend to have a history of being abusive. The women tend to have PND. Generalisations I know.

I've seen it happen where the mum killed her baby but not herself, and she didn't realise what she was doing because she was schizophrenic and having an acute psychotic episode. I cannot begin to imagine what it would feel like to be treated for psychosis, for the psychosis to resolve, and then having to learn what you did to your child when you were acutely unwell. Doesn't bear thinking about. I believe that if someone truly believes it is best for their children if they take their lives, they must be mentally ill. As rattle mentioned, birth can cause or exacerbate a psychotic episode, with or without PND - called puerperal psychosis.

Hmmm. Depends. If you are mentally ill/psychotic then I just think it is very very sad. However, in a number of the more recent newspaper cases it has been clear that the husband (usually) is simply doing it as a form of revenge on the wife for leaving him/getting a life. Those men ring their (ex)wives and tell them that they are going to kill the children/tell them to say goodbye, and I doubt that that level of premediatation and planning if the product of psychosis. Instead, it seems to just be an evil bastard deciding that if he can't have what he wants, no-one else can either.

It isn't only mental illness.

Sometimes it's cold blooded planned revenge. Usually by a man.

Yes, agreed. I suppose I just meant in those instances where the parent is convinced it is for the best for the child. Scary to think there are also just evil people out there who would do that for revenge on a spouse or because they want to for some other sick reason. Horrible

I think in many cases it is down to mental illness/desperation which I think is incredibly sad for all concerned.

As someone else mentioned there simply isn't enough care/support for people struggling with illness or situations which make them feel that desperate.

My sister heard that her best friend from school had died recently. She was 41 and had a little girl who is 6. My sister found out at the funeral that she took her own life after a history of depression, leaving behind her distraught husband and daughter. I look at my DS and cannot imagine how desperate i would have to feel to leave him behind forever. My biggest fear other than losing him is to die myself leaving him without his mummy. But neither can i imagine hurting him in any way and taking away his life just to take him with me. Mental health is so, so important and there is just not enough time or money spent on it. I feel so desperately sad for everyone involved in these cases.

Incidentally, i live in Cambridgeshire where a woman was found guilty of the murder of her two teenage daughters. The trial was delayed several times while lawyers tried to ascertain if she was mentally ill or not. In the end, she was found in possession of all her faculties and was therefore found guilty. She showed no remorse and never offered a shred of a reason why she did it, they could only assume it was to get back at her ex. I say this to prove that it isn't only men who murder in these apparent circumstances. I still think that any parent who is capable of this must be mentally ill as it's certainly not 'normal' behaviour. Perhaps i am just more comfortable with this reasoning.

I hate this assumption that when a woman does something like this it is mental illness and when a man does it it is simply pre-meditated murder.

When it happens it is awful and I cant even begin to thing what its like for the rest of the family but to start making 'excuses' for women yet blaming men just doesn't sit right and is way too much of a generalisation.

Pretty much what i'm saying, Sirzy. It's a bit like temporary insanity and i guess can be triggered (for either gender) by life events.

Exactly matana. I think its one of those things that we can't even begin to second guess what is going on but I don't think anyone who is thinking rationally would do something so dramatic.

Did anybody see the French film "I've loved you so long" about a mother who kills her son?"

Possibly the most moving film I've ever seen. Kristin Scott Thomas should have won an Oscar for her performance in it.

What I find is that when a case comes up in the news, everybody (at least on MN) automatically assumes that if it was a woman it was PND and if it was a man it was premeditated.

And yet the relationship section is full of people who have grown up with cruel and abusive mothers, we know they are out there, we just don't want to believe it.

We also know that there are men suffering severe depression or other mental illness, but somehow we still tend to see men as more in control, more responsible for their actions.

The case I remember from my young days was of a small girl who had been found with the signs of sexual abuse. For weeks all the parents in the area kept their own children close at hand and kept looking over their shoulders. In the end the police became suspicious as all the evidence didn't seem to end up. It turned out the mother had killed the poor child in a fit of temper and then interfered with her body to make it look like an attack by a sexual predator to turn suspicions away from herself. Very different from killing a child to "take her with you".