Please or to access all these features

Add post

Watch this thread

Save thread

Start a new thread

Flip thread

Hide thread

My feed

Active Unanswered threads

Getting started FAQ's

Unanswered threads Acronyms Talk guidelines

Hide shortcut buttons

Talk

Parenting

For free parenting resources please check out the Early Years Alliance's Family Corner.

Flip

Original poster

I have no idea how to cope with my 4-yr-old ds

19 replies

utterlyconfused · 20/06/2006 16:22

I've posted about this one before. Our term ends tomorrow and I am faced with 8 weeks of my children together. ds1 is 7 1/2, dd is almost 6 and ds2 is 4. He attacks them. He loves bugging anyone just to get a reaction. He doesn't respond to threats, and couldn't care less about praise. He really hurts the others and comes away laughing. I just don't know how to deal with him. I have had to take him out of his nursery school anyway because he attacked the children there too, so I have had him with me all day every day for most of the last month or so. I know it's going to be truly awful and I am dreading it.
Please help.

OP posts:

Are your children’s vaccines up to date?

Set a reminder

ssd · 20/06/2006 16:26

can you get the older 2 into some summer playschemes, eg. football/ gym/ swimming to separate them out a bit?

must admit ds2's behavouir does sond extreme, but I've got 2 boys and don't claim to be an expert! sorry this is so difficult for you all.

have you asked for your HV's advice?

Original poster

utterlyconfused · 20/06/2006 16:27

Yes.

That says it all, really.

OP posts:

Blossomhill · 20/06/2006 16:28

Well firstly rule out that there is nothing going on with your ds that could be causing this.
Dietary, ruling out things like adhd (if he is hyeractive as well).
I would use something like timeouts every time he hurts a sibling. Choose a safe place that he cannot hurt himself or anybody else. He will sit there for 4 minutes (4 for every year of his life) and I would make it extremely clear that in this house and anywhere else this kind of behaviour is not tolerated.
You have to be consistent, threats do not work!
Also a star chart where he can earn something may also be good too. So say if he earns 20 stars in 1 week (you decide what he will get starts for) then he can go to the park, buy a magazine etc etc. Believe me award systems like that do work well.

Good luck

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about these subjects:

Families General parenting

Original poster

utterlyconfused · 20/06/2006 16:34

I appreciate your positive approach Blossom.

We have done gp, hv, educational psychologist, and I have spoken to a myriad of other people, none of whom think that he needs to be assessed for any of the "usual" things. Timeouts don't work, as much because often I'm not right there when it happens, or we're in the car (it's terrible there) but also because he thinks it's funny and simply won't take it seriously. He also calls me every name under the sun if I do something like that (not that that would stop me).

OP posts:

Original poster

utterlyconfused · 20/06/2006 16:35

Anyway...

... what on earth would he get stars for? He does nothing starworthy. At all.

OP posts:

Original poster

utterlyconfused · 20/06/2006 16:36

I just want to stop the attacks.

OP posts:

Original poster

utterlyconfused · 20/06/2006 16:57

Bump. Ther must be ONE of you old-handers who can help me...

OP posts:

Blossomhill · 20/06/2006 17:12

You obv. cannot carry on like this uc.

Tbh I have a sn child and your ds's behaviour really does seem extreme.

This may sound so obvious and laughable but could he be trying to get your attention?

Have you tried haveing 1:1 time?

glassofwine · 20/06/2006 17:36

I was a taught a slightly different method of time out then stated earlier. The idea is that the time out is only for one minute, but doesn't start until the child is quiet. You take them to the designated place, not behind a locked door, give them a timer (kitchen one will do) and tell them that it starts once they've calmed down and then set the timer. Once they've done it just move on, don't go over what they did.

The idea is that it teaches them to calm themselves down.

Do you have a DP, can you split the children at the weekend to help 1 to 1 time with all three. We do this with our three and everyone likes it.

Original poster

utterlyconfused · 20/06/2006 18:27

Yes, I think it's largely for attention - but how on earth can I give it to him? I feel it's a constant cycle of meals and runs (and ok the runs are about to stop but then I have to try to keep all of them happy at the same time) and I never seem to have any time to give any of them. At weekends I tend to palm them all off on dp at a time in order to let me cook a meal/do the laundry/go shopping in peace. Or one of them's got a party or something to go to so the other two are left at home.

And while yes, attention is an issue, a lot of this aggressive behaviour goes on when I'm not actually there, eg upstairs in the bedrooms when I'm in the kitchen. I think he's trying to show them who's boss.

OP posts:

sparklemagic · 20/06/2006 18:29

so sorry to hear you're going through this utterly.

I am interested to know what your DS enjoys - over the last month, what has he been happy doing or at least caused no trouble while doing?

What would the general routine of your day be with him, what do you do during a normal day?

It sounds to me that though you have asked for help with your DS by getting him looked at by various professionals, you have actually received no support with him and I think it may be very necessary for you to get some extra input in dealing with him. The reason I say this is because it is obvious that there is a huge negative cycle here, with his behviour making you feel very understandably negative about him, then this negativity feeds his bad behaviour. It's a really cruel part of being a parent that kids can sometimes make it almost impossible to get out of this sort of cycle, because as you say how do you reward when there is nothing good?

I think it may be worth thinking about a parenting course, they can if well put together give a genuine new insight into things and provide you with some new strategies and hopefully a new positivity and some belief that you can do it! There is always scope for understanding our children better, dealing with them better and feeling that we have the strength to see through any consequences we decide to apply in my view.

I have to go out in a sec but will check back later!

Original poster

utterlyconfused · 20/06/2006 18:43

You sound as if you know what you're talking about Sparkle - what do you do?

I know, it does sound as if I had no support, but it wasn't really like that. The only person that really saw him "in action" was the ed psych. All the others said there was clearly nothing "wrong" with him because he was so bright and expressed himself well etc. There was also a general feeling that he was too young to be assessed - for anything. I got lots of "there there, have you tried star charts and cutting out the e-numbers?" but he doesn't get any e-numbers and of course I've tried star charts, I have two other children, done the boy thing, why would I be seeking professional help if I hadn't tried a star chart?
(That is not a dig at those of you who have suggested it, btw, that's what Mumsnet is for, I just really wondered how these people couldn't SEE that I was seriously desperate).

Because we are in Scotland, he doesn't start school for another year. Next year he will go into the pre-school for his proper school, which is 5 mornings. At the moment I am holding out for that, as the general opinion is that that will solve all our problems as he will be sufficiently stimulated. I dread it as I just don't think it's that simple. Just another group of children to terrorise.

I'll look into the parenting course options. i am so grateful for your understanding.

OP posts:

Original poster

utterlyconfused · 20/06/2006 18:46

I haven't really answered your questions. He is happy with animals, going to new places, and in his element when one on one with any adult.

Like any 3rd child, he spends a lot of time in the car. Homework time is a nightmare because he sabotages it. He's in bed by 6.30 because he's shattered.

OP posts:

Blossomhill · 20/06/2006 19:34

Any other elements of his behaviour that you are concerned with?

Original poster

utterlyconfused · 20/06/2006 20:02

Like what, I wonder? I think the answer to that is probably no. He's not obsessive about anything or anything like that. He eats well and sleeps well (up too early but ds1 was like that). He can be quite shy around new people, and seems to be v self-conscious.

OP posts:

sparklemagic · 20/06/2006 22:21

utterly, I am not an expert educationally but it does sound to me as if he is very bright actually. I think self consciousness can go along with a bright and sensitive child.

Maybe his personality somehow 'clashes' with his position as number 3 - as you say he has to fit in and spend time in the car etc and is at the bottom of the heirarchy. Some of his behaviour may be prompted by a part of him that is rebelling against this - as a first child he may have been easier! I know this is not helping as there is nothing you can do about it, I just think understanding more of his motivation may just let bits of positivity toward him creep back in - if you feel he can't 'help' it in a way....

I am glad you liked the parenting course idea, I do hope you find something that works.

Your DS has struck a chord with me, my DS is also at his happiest one on one with adults, is self conscious, loves new places and is in bed exhausted at the same time as your DS! He can also be very attention seeking.

I think the main thing for now to keep your sanity maybe, while you look for some other input, is to keep to perhaps time out as a consequence. I really believe that if you are consistent and it is set in stone that he will get a consequence for certain behaviours, he WILL learn - even if he laughs or calls names at the time, he will be learning. But time out is only a punishment if you can give him some one to one attention as well, otherwise he is not 'losing' anything by going into time out. At least it's a break of a few minutes for you to gather your thoughts, as well.

I also think maybe you and your DH could sit down and see if anything can be done with your daily routines to make life easier. Is your DH home at dinner and bedtimes or is it all you?

You say homework time is a sabotage target for him - can you just for the moment move his bedtime half an hour earlier so that the kids can get their homework done then? I know this isn't ideal but it's a way of 'firefighting' for now to give you all a break!

Hope some of this is helpful, I really feel for you.

Original poster

utterlyconfused · 21/06/2006 21:34

Sparkle, thank you so much for coming back to my thread. What you have said has been a real help, and I think you could be right about him. And sometimes it does help just to hear someone else rationalise it and to see it in black and white and things don't seem quite so suffocating.

I've been thinking a lot about what I might get out of a parenting course, and I think what I really need to be able to do is manage my family as a whole. While ds2 is invariably the instigator of their disagreements, 99% of the time, the other two handle it wrongly (usually just by reacting) and it's awful, but I end up getting really cross with them. No amount of reasoning seems to get it through to them that if we work together we should be able to manage him to a bearable degree.

The amount of time dh is around varies hugely. Sometimes he is away, sometimes he is home. When he's home he can be back any time between 5 and 8. As is the case with many men, it's not easy to sit him down and actually discuss the issue, and while he appreciates that things aren't easy, he certainly doesn't experience it in the way I do, just because he's not in the hotseat.

Right, I'm off to do some research on parenting courses!

Thank you.

OP posts:

WestCountryLass · 21/06/2006 22:25

Just a few thoughts...

You say he spends a fair bit of time in the car, can you give him puzzles/books/pens to do in the car just to keep him busy?

Also, when he sabotages homework time, can you set him up activities to do (preschool workbooks, painting, playdoh, building blocks, cooking/helping with tea)?

When he fights, can you start with a reward/punishment "scheme". Time out and if continued agressive behaviour, take away his favourite things (toys/TV time/one on one time).

Parentline Plus do some parenting courses on a variety of issues, not sure if you have them in your area?

Also, I know it might be too late but I do think your nursery/pre-school/HV should be supporting you with this issue.

Good luck!

glassofwine · 22/06/2006 10:04

Utterly - I did a parenting course last year, it was full of normal mum's who were just trying to get it right. I think we'd all say we learnt a lot and by the end of it (10wks) we were happier mums with happier families. I loved it so much am thinking about training to teach them in the future.

Would really recommend, but I'm down south.

Flip