Can mumsnetters help where HV wouldn't?

[magicturnip]

My five month old?s eating and sleeping is all over the place. He wakes five to seven times a night. He needs to be held upright for about 20mins after each feed due to reflux and sometimes wakes himself up completely after a feed and takes ages to settle. He wakes for the final time about 6.15 to 6.30am. My HV refused to give me any advice to help his sleep until he is six months old.

I also asked for advice on feeding, both milk and solids, as I have no idea how much or how frequently he should feed. As I am wanting to move him over to exclusive bottle feeding, for a variety of reasons, I really wanted some advice. He currently takes very short breast feeds, quite frequently (about 15 times in 24 hours). HV just said ?all babies are different? and offered no more help.

Despite the fact that both a paediatrician and dietician have advised that I make more progress in moving him to solids the HV just said I should not feed him till six months and wouldn?t give me any more help.

So mumsnetters, do you have any advice on these issues: helping to support better sleep, self settling, and less frequent, larger feeds? How many feeds is normal in 24 hours at this age?

He is waking up a lot during the night, would expect twice but not 5/7, he is probably waking as part of normal sleep patterns but not resettling. I think he is probaby hungry so that is why he is waking lots. Can you continue to BF and add FF to fill him up? I found the combination worked well for us. You could try and use bottles to aid colic relief. We bought loads of gripe waters to help with reflux and they worked on and off. Just need to be patient and carry on as you are doing, holding baby upright.

Is there a reassuring trigger that helps him sleep? For instance, if my DC wake up, I lay a hand on their back and shush them back quickly before they wake completely. Or I stroke their face/head and it seems to calm as they know you are there. 5 months is still very little and they need to know you are close.

I don't know about weaning earlier, you could try more milk first.

There is no normal for any baby/toddler/child! Each one is unique with its own set of demands! Wish you well.

Not much help hopefully others will come along but I do think you should trust your instincts, weaned dd a bit early as she was waking up a lot around this point. Hv also said all the night waking was fine, unless you seem depressed they generally don't care as they are just going through a scorecard that says do not feed til 6 months, check, is mother depressed, check etc.

5m is still really tiny... would co-sleeping be a shirt term fix?

I would not be bothered too much with solids, both of mine had porridge at 6m, but really never really go into the swing of meals for a few months after that. Are you sure all the weaning signs are there? look ar BLW...a pretty chilled out way to introduce food.

I would tackle one thing at a time, and I'd start with moving him onto bottles if that is what you want to do, and hopefully the rest will come later.

Is he on any meds for his reflux? Have you tried any formulas? If not try and talk to your paediatrician or dietician about what milk they would recommend. If you can get on top of the reflux his sleep may improve.

It sounds as if he is waking out of habit - at his age he shouldn't need so many feeds overnight. Do you offer him milk straight away or do you try any other settling techniques first? At around this age my dd2 used to like just knowing someone was there, so I'd sit and 'ssshhh pat' rather than offer milk. She started using a muslin as a comforter at around 5 months too, now when she wakes (shes 12mo) I just make sure she's holding that and it's usually enough to settle her.

I hope that helps :)

How many bottles feeds are you giving him, how often and how big are they?

With the needing to be held upright, have you tried propping up the head of his cot slightly?

There's a big growth/developmental spurt at 4 months ish, and I suppose that could have become habitual, but I'd say if he's wanting feeds he's either hungry or seeking comfort to allow him to drop back off again. Does he fall asleep on his own in his cot at bedtime? Does he have a dummy? DS2 had one and it was a nightmare as it'd fall out and I'd have to get it back for him - by 5 months I had started putting him in bed with 4 dummies to up the odds of him finding one by himself.

Thanks all. He is on mega meds for reflux and paed and dietician reckon solids will also help with this (he is still pretty pukey) and with night waking. I have not been that great with being consistent with bottles - need to get more of a routine going. But offer several times a day. He takes no more that 110mls absolute max, and often less. I suspect this is about as much as a normal breast feed as they are so short. I think the reflux got him in the habit of taking very short feeds, so I do think he is hungry when he wakes at night, except perhaps for the last couple of wake ups. I put a dummy in and hold his tummy some times but this has only worked once to resettle him! I don't pick him up till he is properly awake. We use a co-sleeping cot. I think problem is that reflux has got him into habit of being held to sleep as he falls asleep on breast after feed and then I have to hold him up, but I can't stop doing this until reflux completely disappears.

Thanks mimsy. He cannot get to sleep at all by himself. we do use a dummy to help him settle but he tends to spit it out himself soon after falling asleep, so losing this isn't waking him in the night. We can't prop the cot head up anymore than we do as it is under an eave and there is nowhere else to put it in our room.

It's not unusual to give a refluxy baby solids earlier than normal.

Thanks miaow, yes, I agree that my Hv is utterly shit. I am actually thinking of refusing the six month visit as it will be a waste of my time. She also totally pissed me off as i found out she had not been ignoring me but had been calling andnever leaving messages. Surely as a hv she should have realised it wasn't always easy for me to answer the sodding phone with a needy baby!
Laughing at vasectomy comment. Our paed said if we want another we should conceive now as ds1 will probably put us off if we wait as he will be such hard work!

Some HV are great, some absolutely rubbish. Yours definitely the latter!

As pp said, I'd introduce bottles for a couple of weeks before solids. If he has a reaction/poorly tummy, you'll want to know if its the formula or the food.

For weaning, most people start with baby rice, but I think it's awful and so did DS! So with dd I will again start with partially cooked fruit and veg, some for finger food but mainly purees. BLW is all very well but they don't eat much, which is important for reflux. Fwiw I'm going to wean at 5 months too, dd is 4m now, trying to snatch my food and 99th centile for height, she takes a lot of breastfeeding!

Try annabel Karmel for basic weaning and easy next stage recipes. The nhs website has basic guidelines too.

For the sleep, dd has mild reflux and I have to hold her up too so I have the same problem. Have you read the no cry sleep solution? It suggests teaching them to settle without feeding to sleep, so start with withdrawing nipple before fully asleep and gently push chin up to close mouth, when they resist and root just refeed and repeat repeat until they settle. Been doing it for a few weeks with dd and she now spits out the nipple herself and will settle if she wakes with just a pat sometimes, unheard of before. May be worth a read.

I know nothing about reflux but how does he sleep in the daytime? So many night wakings sounds like overtiredness to me. It arose with DD1 because she always fed to sleep and couldn't get herself into a deep sleep. If he isn't having long periods of sleep I would work on naps, and possibly some gentle sleep training (things like No Cry to start -- not leaving him to cry!).

Thanks hp. Will give no cry soon a go. I am reluctant to do 'controlled crying' as poor ds has cried so much in his little life that I don't want to cause him more misery. Think some of other mums I know think I am a bit bonkers not to do cc, but I don't think it is for us.

Thanks miaow. Paed. Thinks is an intolerance. We tried him with a little cow's milk formula the other day and had a bad night, so looks as if it may be. Though might have been a coincidence I guess. Your daughter sounds like a mini Boudicca at the moment! Guess that is less cosy than a snoozy night feed : )