Can't handle my 3 year old's disobedience

[gingerbabe]

Maybe it's just because it's Winter, or maybe it's just a phase she's going through, but I am finding it increasingly hard to have the upper hand with DD1s behaviour. The worst is usually when we are out shopping.

I like to try and get out somewhere most days, otherwise she goes stir crazy and, if we're not seeing friends, I often go into town with DD1 and DD2 (4 months). Rather than take the double buggy and half the number of shops we are able to go into, I put DD2 in the pram and hold DD1s hand. However, when in shops she likes to run around like a loony and won't listen when I ask her to stay with me. I know that she is just being inquisitive about a new and exciting place, but even if I try and distract her by getting her to helpme choose a card for one of her friend's birthdays, she just pulls out cards randomly and gets all hyper on me.

The textbook answer is probably don't go shopping with them, but how else am I supposed to get things I need?

Also, it's not just at the shops. She is constantly disobeying me at home, or even worse just ignoring me. I know somewhere along the line I've done something wrong in the way I've brought her up - probably let her have her own way too much - but now I don't know what to do.

Gingerbabe - I have this problem with my two DDs (almost 3) when we are shopping. They feel they are too big for the double buggy but I still feel they are too small to be let loose in a shop! They refuse to hold hands and charge about touching everything and causing havoc! Very stressful, so I do sympathise.

One thing that has worked recently is threatening to use the wrist strap thing (forgotten what it is called, like reins but just a strap round their wrist). They think this is very babyish so just the threat of it can sometimes do the trick for a short time. Worth a try maybe.

Try warning her in advance on shopping days, and saying something like "If you are a good girl whilst we are shopping, then we can go to the park later on/play football/buy an ice-cream". But if she's not good, you have to be prepared not to give her the treat you've promised.

Also praise her to high heaven if she manages to go into one shop without going hyper. And if she does, do your best not to pay her much attention. Take her hand or take her out of the shop but don't make eye contact or talk to her until she has calmed down, and then don't refer to the incident at all. She soon realise that she gets much more attention if she's good, so hopefully that's what she will do!

Have you tried some sort of sticker chart for good behaviour? Kids usually love this and respond really well to it.

Unfortnately I think this is pretty normal behavious for a three year old. My DD is the same. Could it be related to DD2 coming on the scene ? The books say it takes at least 6 months to adjust to a new sibling (my DD1 is still jealous and difficult after 9 months)

Everything seems to get worse when a new baby is 4/5 months old! It's probably just a phase and if I were you I'd lay off the shops for a while and do things where she can run around without worrying about it? Would that be possible?

I have to say that there is nothing I find more irritating than seeing women traipsing round shops with babies/toddlers screaming, whining and playing up because they're bored out of their brain. Does your dd1 go to a playgoup, nursery, parents and toddler session etc for example to get more stimulation than a shopping mall can provide. It might be wise to take stock of what activities she is doing and whether something more structured is now appropriate. I do 95% of my shopping on line to avoid said scenario and only take ds2 for a quick whizz round the shops if absolutely essential whilst ds1 is at nursery.

Of course you haven't brought her up wrong! Kids do need to get their own way sometimes too The others have good advice about positive parenting which will help in the long run.
Short term - do you have a forward facing front carrier thingy for dd2? Maybe she could go in that, and you could hold dd1's hand, or even put her in a pushchair.
When ds was 3 he went through some horrible phases (disobeying, ignoring, etc). Everyone warns you about the terrible twos, but why does no one mention what awful little beasts they can be at three!

But Trifle, we ahve to get out too. I cant stay in all day just because ds likes to throw a tantrum.

Thanks for all your comments. Rhubarb, I think the suggestion of just removing her from the shop without saying a word is definitely worth trying, and praising her if she behaves. Have tried the 'if you are a good girl you can have a new book' but when she realises she won't be getting it she looks at me as if to say "Big deal. Tell someone who gives a toss!"

Bunny2, I agree with your comment that we do have to get out too.

Trifle, I also do a lot of online shopping, but for little things like birthday cards (the most recent incident) I like to go into our local town. Yes, this is something I could probably do when she is at nursery but the idea behind going is to get out of the house just for a change of scene, and I thought she would like helping me choose birthday cards for 2 parties she is going to. I don't tend to take her to malls for shop after shop because I know how boring this is for a young child.

I have tried to help her let off some steam by playing in the garden with her when the weather is mild enough and DD2 is asleep and this does help.

I know it is an attention seeking thing she will hopefully grow out of, but it doesn't make it any easier when you are being looked at in shops and probably judged on your parenting skills. It shouldn't get to me, but it does.

I found that telling my dd1 (now just turned 4) the plan for going shopping helped. I'd say 'We're going to go to X and buy Y, and I need you to help me' before we went in anywhere, and got her to talk about it and think about it beforehand. I would keep trips as short as possible but because I live in the country and dont drive I rely on buses and so trips to town can last several hours.
I would also try interspersing shops with other things - even just getting a carton of juice and sitting on a bench together. We are lucky in that we have a very child friendly library with a child friendly coffee shop, and that was the big treat - still is. If she was good while we did Mummy's jobs then we would go and get an ice cream in the coffee shop!
Have you thought about trying to find good places to play while you are out. For example, my bank branch has a fab train table. So I would make up an excuse to go to the bank (have been known to withdraw money from the cash machine then go inside and pay it back in again) and while we were in spend about 15 mins playing with the trains as a treat. As long as I let her know it was time limited and we would have to go, then gave warnings (2 more minutes ... when I have counted up to 10 ... etc) then it wasn't too much of a bother to get her out again.
These are just some of the things I found helped us. I also would second the idea of having some kind of carrier for your dd2. I would put ds in the backpack and then dd1 could have the treat (or threat!!!) of being strapped in the buggy if things got bad. We stopped often enough that it never got too much to be carrying him (and I felt I had EARNED the coffee and cake I would have while she was eating her icecream).

I do sympathise. I found 3 much, much harder than 2 with her. But in the last few months she has got to be quite a fun shopping companion. We are still struggling a lot with obedience and disobedience at home, and are struggling to find a suitable ppunishment for her being flagrantly disobedient (I dont like to smack except when it si a very, very, very last resort). I certainly find that rewards work better than threats, and when I can keep my head I do what Rhubarb said and ignore the bad behaviour and reward the good.

If only I could get up the courage to take all 3 kids out at once on my own, dd2 is 11 weeks now and I havent done it yet .....

Gingerbabe, I am a big fan of praising kids. I think that many people would think I go overboard - I tell ds "You are such a good boy. I am really enjoying be with you. I love you so much. You are being so nice because you aren't shouting and are staying with me. etc etc etc" but it seems to work for us. I just keep up a stream of praise so when I do get cross, he really notices. So I do 'stay with me - good boy, thank you- now look at this card, what do you think? Shall we buy it? Or this one? Let's buy this one. Can you give the man the money?" It's tiring sometimes, but rewarding. My son is nearly 2/1/2 btw. I think ignoring is natural. One trick I learned from Mumsnet is to creep up beside my ds and whisper to him what I want him to do.This really seems to get his attention - I think that's on of Jimjam's ploys, but I could be wrong. Anyway, it works for us. Good luck. Don't blame yourself!

Thank you Aloha and Susanmt, some really fab advice there, and it makes me feel better knwoing that prob. most 3 year olds go through this stage.

Will def try both your suggestions. I'm not too sure about the baby carrier - I tried one that a friend lent me and it really made my back ache (and she's not a big baby). But, I like the idea about interspersing one of my tasks with something for her. They did have a crayon table at my local bank which she loved but they've taken it away now. So child unfriendly.

I think I need to learn to count to 10 a bit more as well, when she does something to wind me up. I've just become less and less patient recently and I hate myself for it.

Trifle! What planet are you on at all!!!! If I see a harrassed mum out shopping with bawling kids I have every sympathy for her and will lend a hand if I can. Are you one of those women who give us dirty looks and walks away tutting?!

You've obviously got it all sussed Trifle, but do try to have a heart for those of us who aren't that perfect!