My discipline methods are no longer working, inspiration needed

[misscph1973]

I have a 6 y o DS and a 8 y o DD. Both a re very will-full, stubborn, energetic and wonderful. I am finding it increasingly harder! They are a great team and often get themselves into a lot of trouble and misbehave a lot. Although I love their energy and wouldn't want them to be any different, it's very hard work.

I have mainly been using the naughty corner (super nanny) as punishment. some times I also confiscate favourite toys or stop them doing things they like like watching TV or playing computer games for as short period. When these methods are not possible for various reasons (typically on a bus or on an outing) I also resort to yelling at them and holding their arm a little harder than I would like. I am not happy with myself in these situations. They don't seem to listen when I ask them to stop whatever they are doing, they more or less ignore me.

My DH is more authoritative but from my perspective his parenting involves more anger and instils more fear than I think is good for a child. Although he also uses the naughty step and confiscating things, he will get a lot more angry than me in the situations where the these methods are not appropriate, to a point where the children get upset and scared. He always regrets this.

As is evident, we don't parent the same way and I think that is part of the problem. Anger is also an issue for both of us. We both work long hours and get stressed. My DH meditates and it helps a lot, and I often use the tapping method, but when under pressure, we both forget our strategies and end up yelling at the children. Not good.

I would really like to find a more positive to deal with unwanted behaviour as I am not happy with the way this summer holiday has gone, the unwanted behaviour has escalated as has the yelling and squeezing arms - for me, but in a higher degree for my DH. I feel that the children are getting "harder", that they are developing a shield to protect themselves.

I would appreciate any advice! I am working so I might not respond immediately to posts on this thread.

123 Magic by Tom Phelan is brilliant.

Basically, any behaviour you want them to stop, you give them warnings, no arguments, no lectures, just the warning (eg. Saying one, waiting a few seconds to give them a chance to stop what they're doing, then two, then three if necessary). If you get to three, the dc goes into time out.

It's very simple, but I find it works.

It sounds like you've got some good strategies, and that things are still challenging for you all.

Some questions come to mind:

Are you consistent? Do you always follow through? Do you and your DP have different priorities when it comes to discipline?

Do you offer positive attention? Praise often keeps kids on the straight and narrow better than fear of punishment!

Are you worried about how much you shout? Some people hate shouting - I think it has its place. Your post isn't really clear how you feel. I find my son responds better when I'm calm. When I shout he switches off and stops listening!

faverolles, I have heard about 123, just put it on my Amazon wish list, thanks.

Anythingnoteverything, thanks for your positive post. No, I am not always consistent. yes, we have different priorities. I am more relaxed, and I think my DH is more "old fashioned", he expects very good behaviour whereas I am just happy if no one gets hurt ;) I do give positive attention, but it's like a black hole, they crave attention and it's never enough. I work from home, so I am often locked in my office trying to meet my deadlines, and it's been hard in the holidays.

I am worried about the shouting, I feel that we are the shouting family and I really don't like it.

My main concern is that especially DD seems to be developing this hard surface to protect herself. She is very strong minded and if she want something, she does not care about the consequences. Recently she has started telling her little brother that she hates him when they don't get on and sometimes she will come and tell me with a straight face that he kicked her in the face when he obviously was no where near her.

DS has been regressing and speaking baby language ("Me want x" etc) and just wants me to carry him and cuddle him all the time.

LifeofPo, thanks, I have already read it twice! But I would actually like to read it again now that you mention it. I don't recall the flash points, so it's probably worth reading it again.

We all have a temper in our family :( and you are so right.

I already feel a lot better just for writing this post! I feel like it's the start of making it better.

OK, thanks, Lifeofpo, makes sense. Will look up flash points.

I like the idea of letting your DD say 3 naughty words. I am struggling with finding ways to vent / let off steam.

I have had reasonable success with the naughty step. What I like about it is that you stop your own telling off (or shouting and yelling) and parent and child gets a few minutes to cool off. But I am having less luck with it these days, perhaps because they are getting older.

The naughty step served me well until DD was about 9 and I was so smug and pleased with myself up until this point as many of my friends had had to abandon it a lot earlier. The problem for me, and it sounds like this for you, is that then I didn't have much else left. DH would send DD to her room for the slightest little thing, which would cause enormous tension amongst the three of us.

Can you anticipate situations that will be a problem? Say supermarket shopping is the problem - what I did was to indicate to DD the behaviour I was expecting and sort of 'get her on my side'. I would promise a reward if she behaved as I had requested. It doesn't have to be anything enormous for a reward - something they will get anyway usually will do, like a tv programme or a cake after tea. If while we were out, her behaviour started to lapse, I would remind her of what we had agreed. Also, if the behaviour was good, I would go on and on about how pleased I was.

I think children at this age still want to please, so you can tap into that. When they do something kind, or behave well, praise them. I read that it was best to praise the behaviour, not the child, so you say ' I really like it that you and your brother are watching tv so nicely' rather than 'you're such a good girl'. It takes a huge amount of patience and effort but it works in the end.

Also, and I was guilty of this, try and match the punishment with the crime. When you are cross it is easy to say 'if you don't stop that we are not going on holiday tomorrow' or something equally ridiculous and this means that the children know you make empty threats. If you are boiling mad, tell them that there will be consequences and that you will let them know what they are, when you are less cross with them.

My DD is 17 so I am out the other side. I think the middle childhood years are one of the most testing as a parent.

monikar, thanks for your insightful post. What you describe does sound a lot like what I am having trouble with.

They have really been testing limits this holiday and it has been very hard. They have stolen a key to a back door (the only existing one), which luckily was found again quickly. DS has burned a few millimetres off his fringe when he played with a candle and and a lighter he stole from my dad. And at a family party they woke a sleeping 2 year old by stealing her dummy and putting a pillow over her head. And lots more. Because there has been so much I have not got a lot of patience left and they seem to completely ignore being told off, they simply shut down. So I raise my voice to get through to them and hold their arm harder than I should. And it doesn't work.

To a certain extent it will probably get better when they are back in school. But I hate the idea of looking forward to them going back and I would really like to enjoy the holidays more.

Today they have been quite good. We went to a big play ground and the only problem was that they didn't want to leave.

I used to feel that I had more control in the term time, and the same as you, I felt I was wishing the holidays away which wasn't what I wanted to do. Days when we had proper outings which DD wanted to do were better, but obviously this isn't possible every day.

Everyone hates shouting when someone else is doing it, but most of us are guilty of it at times. I remember thinking that I didn't want DD to remember me in her childhood as someone who shouted all the time, and it was this thought that reined in a lot of my yelling.

If they loved the playground today, then could you use this as a carrot for future behaviour, if you are willing to go again? Perhaps sit down when you are all calm, praise them for their good behaviour at the park today and explain how happy it made you and say that if they can behave for the next x days then you will take them again. I think what was the key for me with my DD was resetting her behaviour. She had got used to testing me and it had become a habit.

As I said, these are difficult years. Everyone tells me that the teenage years are the worst but I found the middle child years much more challenging.

Again, thanks, Monikar, for your very insightful and helpful post.

Whenever I shout, I keep thinking that this is what they will remember! And I hate that.

I did use to make a point of telling them whenever they had been good, I will take it up again, thanks for the reminder.

And I think you have a good point about a certain behaviour becoming habit - for my children as well as myself and certainly for DH.