Just lost it with the children :(

[TheSunTheMoonTheTruth]

They just make such a mess. Casual, flippant filthy mess. DS is 3.5, so to some extent I get that he is learning etc but he keeps taking water from cups, bottles etc and tipping it over everything. DD is 7. They leave rubbish lying around (not helped by DH letting them eat in the front room, gives them crisps or whatever to eat there, despite me desperately trying to keep food in the kitchen due to their inability to clean up after themselves). They don't clean their toys away, DD has complete disregard for her things, she couldn't care less if they break or not, apart from momentary upset at the deed happening. Their bedroom is disgusting, even though I tidied it thoroughly several days ago and try to keep it tidy at bedtime with them helping.

Last night, I went to bed with a lovely tidy front room. The kitchen was reasonably tidy. But a few bits and bobs (empty drinks bottles on the side, some rubbish that DH chucked into the sink when he got home late last night from work )

This morning, the kids woke very very early and were sent to watch TV. DH got up at 7am ish, I got up a little later, and the front room had been trashed already! Cushions on the floor, toys lying around, drinks cups. Then DD without asking, goes to help herself to a sandwich (after breakfast), and nice as she is makes one for us all, lovely. Except there is now bread crumbs everywhere as she didn't bring a plate in, the kitchen is a mess again as there is jam, bread, butter all over the sides. That's just how it is, I tried to walk away and led it go over my head.

About to put some washing in the dryer before we head to the park for bike rides. DD walks up to a glass, in the sink, which is half full of red water from DSs experiment with putting s babybel wrapper in a glass of water. She knew I was upset about this making such a mess. They also both knew that I was spending 30 mins tidying so we had a nice tidy house before we went out. She picked up the glass, picked up an empty water bottle and poured the red water into the bottle. Except it spilled over the floor, down the washing machine door, onto white clean washing that I was just about to take to the tumble dryer.

I went bananas I asked them/DD if she thought my sole purpose was to clean up after her, so that she could do as she pleased? I asked her why she did it 'don't know'. I picked up the rest of it, and chucked it on the floor. 'why did you do that mummy?!!' why not?! I said? and then I picked up some toys from the table and chucked them casually onto the floor, walked into the hallway and pulled some clothes from my chest of drawers. I was so so so cross. I just saw red and felt so upset and angry. Not even angry, frustrated and upset and the casualness and speed with which they destroy the house. I said to them 'see, look at the mess I have just made?! But the difference is, there is no-one going to clean up after me! It's me cleaning it all up and so that's why I don't do this!' can't you just treat this house a little nicer? can you look after our things?

And so now, I am in a filthy mood and I can't shake it, I feel really tearful. DD is tidying her shitpit of a bedroom up as I told her to take all her toys out of the hallway and front room. I said that right now I don't care if she lives in filth but the rest of the house won't be like this. I have to tidy up both their mess, and my own mess caused by having a tantrum.

It's the second time in one week I lost the plot with the children. Although the last time was due to them playing by the car in a car park which resulted in DS running into the carpark road, a busy one and by the grace of god avoided being hit by a car (which all drive too fast where I was parked. Lesson learnt for me there, never park there again). I was so angry with them I actually swore. And then I cried.

I now also feel bad as the children looked at me like 'oh, mummy isn't happy' and they then looked so little. Which of course they are. They both came up to me holding hands, as I put the washing in the machine, and said sorry. And then I felt like a dreadful mother, which of course I was being. But, how old with DD be before she can be held responsible for being part of the family and cleaning up mess she makes?

I am not really wanting any YABU or YANBU etc, as I know my own behaviour was not great, but really, I just felt surrounded by mess and unable to control it and saw our imminent bike ride become further away. and the day end up being wasted, again and needed to let of some steam

and the thing is, they are good children, nice, happy, pleasant, kind, fun, clever. They are wonderful and I love spending time with them. I just don't know why they can't be a little more tidy and how to get them on board with it. I am not expecting the house to be a palace, some toys around is fine. I am not someone who wants the front room to be toy free and look like we don't have children.

Last night, when the front room was lovely and tidy, done with the help of the children having bribed them with a short film before bed, we all sat together on the sofa with a blanket, in loveliness. I put on some candles and DS said 'oooh it looks beautiful in here'. I asked them why they thought it was nice and they said because it was clean and sparkly with candles.

They also sleep better in a tidy room, so they clearly prefer tidy. They just won't do it. I am not bribing them with a film each time I want them to clean up! I have tried other bribes - stars, rewards, sanctions, even tried money with DD, not interested.

:(

Have that coffee and a few biscuits.

DH needs tackling first.

• Shit does not get dumped in the sink when he gets home unless he commits to getting up first and cleaning it up so you don't even know it happened.

• He does not allow the kids to have snacks or drinks in the sitting room.

• He pulls his weight around the house.

DS

• 3.5 is old enough to know not to tip water everywhere. You need to talk to him and tell him what the punishment will be if he does it again and do not 'let him off'.

DD 7 - they are still at that Mess Monster age & doing stupid things that they don't think through (unfortunately), so all you can do is praise good/tidy/cleaning behaviour and try to be gentle and consistent in telling her to clean & tidy. Explaining things like it was kind & lovely to make everyone sandwiches, but part of doing that is tidying & cleaning up after doing it and then show her how. (Or, just do what most parents I know do and don't allow her free reign in the kitchen!! I couldn't cope with it!!).

It does kids no harm to think about others and to know that even Mum has a 'boiling point' :)

(Sorry though, the carpark one is down to you - but I think you've worked that out for yourself :) x)

TBH i think their behaviour re mess is not wildly unusual for DC of their ages, and the red water spill was an accident.

that being said, i certainly don't think you're wrong to want to nudge them into taking responsibility for their own mess. they won't do it overnight, and giving frequent reminders is wearisome, but they'll gradually learn. We usually do "10-minute" tidy a couple of times a day before doing something they really want to do, so they're reasonably incentivised, and then the remaining mess at bedtime is not too awful. And your DH needs to get on board too.

don't let this ruin the whole day . Sit down with them and have a hot chocolate together, and say sorry for a having A Moment. Plan something nice to do this afternoon after you've all sorted the house out together.

chippinin I so agree with tacking DH. I just don't know how to stop him a) being messy himself and b) not letting the children eat in the front room. He does pull his weight around the house to some extent, and normally he is responsible for the kitchen (not chosen, sort of ended up that way as he chills out in the kitchen with a beer after work so often just tidies up as he goes along) but he pulled a 12 hour shift in a restuarant kitchen yesterday followed by another today, so I cleaned it. He has blind spots though! I don't know how he can step over dropped towels (usually dropped by him!).

I am the big bad ogre in the family. I am the one who doesn't let them go on the computers, eat in the front room, make them clean their bedroom (attempt to) before bed, or treats like a film. He is the one who comes along with popcorn and a new film and set them up in a messy front room without getting them to clean.

He doesn't participate in stars or rewards of any kind. We agreed recently that now that DD was 7, she would get £1 pocket money, per week, but this would be on the condition of her doing the things that we already want her to do, keep her toys in her room tidy (she shares with DS so can't be responsible for tidying his stuff), cleaning her teeth, shoes at the top of the stairs, clothes in wash basket, breakfast in 30 mins not 1 hour! that kind of thing. So, first time, I said to her 'would you like to help me tidy your room and you can have your first £1 pocket money?' DH had agreed with this. DD did hardly anything, so as we tidied so I reduced it to 50p as she put like 3 books away! She really wasn't bothered. So, I gave her 50p at the end and explained if she helped a little more next week she could have the full £1. DH then said 'and here is 50p from daddy, for being my lovely princess' and gave her another 50p! Grr.

I can't bear the children going in the kitchen, but DH lets them, so again, I am the bad mummy. It doesn't stop me from trying to enforce it, but it makes it harder for them to listen.

Ooooh I needed to rant, clearly!

It's probably not helped by me being at home all day with them. I am normally at work several days a week. I am loving being with them and don't feel like I am missing work or anything, but perhaps it's there subconsciously, the lack of my usual routine.

God, I really don't want to turn into a harpie mother!

I have to brave the opticians with them both this afternoon, so nothing fancy then! I will give them an incentive to tidy up their bedroom a little more by offering to buy them a babychino when we are out (but not until after the opticians!) I know that is insane, but it was meant to be a different day, optician was sick, and DH was not originally working today, I can't cancel again as I need my contacts sorted!

You are not alone, I have this problem and at times I feel as though my life has been reduced to picking up after everyone. Mine are a bit younger than yours and whilst I don't get it right I am trying to get them to tidy up more.

• agree with your DH that there is no eating or drinking in the living room, only in the kitchen. If he doesn't agree he needs to tidy up after them re the food.
• with my oldest they need to tidy their room once it hits a certain level of messiness. If he doesn't I say that I am going to go up to his room with a bin bag and put in anything that is still on the floor. I haven't had to do it the threat and going to get a bin bag have worked so far. My plan is to confiscate them and return once they have been earned back. If you need to take all your DDs toys away before it hits home so be it. Start with those toys she likes best.
• sort out storage. Give away / sell any toys that they have grown out of - be ruthless. Have somewhere for all the toys to go, my oldest drew pictures on his Ikea drawers i.e. cars, soldiers, art etc and so there is somewhere for them all to go. It is easier to keep it neat(er) if there is somewhere for it all to go.
• praise them for tidying it up
• turn it into a game.

I lose it at times, try not to, I have a think about what is causing me to lose it and think about how I can stop it happening again.

Big Black Bin Bag

It is the only thing you need :)

Tell them that anything that isn't tidied away in 20 minutes is going into it and going to the charity shop.

I only had to do it once and they were younger than yours!!

They had always been really good about tidying up and could tidy up the playroom by themselves, no problem, but all of a sudden started stalling, faffing, grumbling, whining etc and I got fed up of it, so I said if they didn't tidy up the playroom now the toys were going to the charity shop. I said they had half an hour and when the timer went off, that was that. No discussion.

They 20, 15, 10, 5 minute warnings (and they just kept ignoring me and playing despite me being very clear & firm) so when the timer went off I went in and picked everything up and put it in bin bags - they said 'No, we'll tidy it up now - we will, we will' type stuff and I said 'No, you had your chance it is going as I said it would'.

It's a long story, but to shorten it, they weren't that fussed (I was angry about that LOL) but the next few days kept asking for their toys back and I said 'No, as soon as I got time I was taking the bags to the charity shop' (Bags clearly in sight in the utility room). Anyway, when they were in bed one night the cleaner was due the next day so I put the toys back and we went out before they could go in the playroom.

When we got back they went to play and saw the toys - very excited and came to tell me. So I 'found the note' the cleaner had left and read it out (to them). 'Chipping, the toys were in the way of my cleaning cupboard, so I put them back in the playroom, hope that was OK'.

I said they could keep them this time and that they had been very lucky that I had been too busy to take them, but that next time I would put them straight in the car boot & take them straight to the charity shop.

After that - I only had to glance sideways at a black bag

[But I have to say, the playroom had a lot of storage and everything had a place - which I think is only fair if you expect them to keep it tidy]

I did see the money jar suggestion earlier in the week, which could work for DD - 1 jar with a smiley face, 1 with a sad face. the smiley face has the pocket money in, or additional pennies for good behaviour and if behaviour is not great, some of it is taken from the smiley jar into the sad faced jar and has to be 'earnt' back. I could use that as leverage.

But, what about for DS? He is too young to know about money other than it's shiny and when I give it to people they let me take things from shops . Maybe I could concentrate on the star chart for him?

I wonder if that would work for DH?

chippin I have done the black bag. I took 3/4 bin bags of stuff from the room when it was DDs. I gave her half an hour to tidy away what she wanted. She did hardly anything until the last 5mins then as I put things into the black bag she ran around collecting some things. When I had finished she went "my room! it's tidy! I can dance! and those things I took away, they are still in the loft now, 2 years later. I have done it periodically since and it makes no difference. The only thing that would devastate her is if I took her sylvanian family animals away, or her little ponies. I don't want to actually upset her!

The storage is good in their room, probably the only place in the house that has a home for everything! We have several ikea storage sets, a big basket for their fancy dress, a cupboard for large items like doll pushchairs. the only thing they do have more of than I know what to do with is bears. Honestly I don't know where they come from - I have so many bags of bears in the loft it is unreal and yet more in their room.

Thank you all for helping to calm me down.

I can probably cope with the bedroom mess, if they didn't just casually mess up everywhere else in the house!

The problem with DH is that we 'agree' that no eating in the front room, or bedroom etc, and he agrees it's creating more unnecessary mess, but, he then gives in with puppy dog eyes from DS, or because he wants to chill out for 10 mins after work in the kitchen, or because the kitchen is a mess. I can't seem to stop him doing that.

He did tidy the house up when I was out the other day though as I complained that I go to bed with a tidy house and get up to a mess, I leave a tidy house, come home to a mess. I said it would be nice if once, I came in or got up to a tidy house as I left it, without having to get up at 5am before the children to do so, tidying up his mess from the night before! It was nice!

DH just try talking to him about how the mess makes you feel, how disrespectful it feels to have him make a mess all the time and expect you to clean it all up. That the children are now doing it too and you didn't sign up to be a skivvy to the 3 of them. Tell him that as far as the kids go, it needs to be contained to the kitchen/dining room and DD will not be having free run of the kitchen. End of. You are there all the time, he is not. You are the one cleaning up, he is not!!

If he's a decent bloke he will understand - if not explain to him that you'd be better off with him living elsewhere and being a Disney Dad every other weekend!

I am the big bad ogre in the family. I am the one who doesn't let them go on the computers, eat in the front room, make them clean their bedroom (attempt to) before bed, or treats like a film. He is the one who comes along with popcorn and a new film and set them up in a messy front room without getting them to clean

Explain to him that this is very unfair. That you, as the primary care giver, are being given all the 'shit' stuff while he does the 'Disney Dad' stuff - tell him this cannot continue.

DH then said 'and here is 50p from daddy, for being my lovely princess' and gave her another 50p!

Ask him what he hopes his DD will turn out like when she grows up? An independent woman or an entitled pain in the arse? Ask him how he thinks he's helping her?? Then tell him if he undermines you like that again, you will have his nuts on toast

Plonk any of his wet towels in his car, on his seat :)

Stop bribing/rewarding them now or else you are going to have keep doing it for everything. They just need to learn that they need to do 'stuff' and 'behave' and there are 'consequences' of not doing that. You can actually use the same stuff a lot of the time - it's how you phrase it! 'If the house is tidy before we go out, we might have time to get a babychinno out, but if it isn't we'll have to come straight home' Do you see the difference? It's not a 'what will I get if I do as I'm told'. Same with the films - just make them tidy up because they have to end of, then later on you can put on a film and say how lovely it is that you have the time to watch a film together in a nice clean room. Don't promise them the film if they do as they're told....

Pick a time when the mess is something she cares about (sylvanian families etc) - it will not hurt her one bit to be upset. You can engineer a way for her to get them back as I did once. She needs to learn and she will only do that if it's something she cares about.

Else you can look upon it as decluttering

Maybe it's DH you need to chuck a tanty at

haven't read all the replies and not even going to bother with 'advice' as i'm sure everyone has come up with good stuff.

i just wanted to say this sounds very normal to me - motherhood as far as i can see is bloody hard work and occasionally you reach the end of your tether and blow. usually by about this point in the summer holidays

i have shouted, "THIS IS WHY I SHOUT" at one point this morning after ds moaned that i'm shouty at the minute then proceeded to shout out the window at the dogs repeatedly whilst i told him 5 times to stop it as it was early and he would disturb the neighbours.

don't feel bad.

we are but human and these pesky kids (and even the really good ones are pesky when they're under your feet making a mess 24/7) would try the patience of saints.

well, currently, they have tidied the front room spotless, so as to stop mummy from being cross DS just said 'is the front room tidy now mummy? are you happy again now?' and that makes me feel terrible!

re rewards, you are absolutely right. I have said to them that we are going into town shortly and I need the house to be clean before we go. I also said that if we get out in time there might be time for us to stop for a babychino, but only if we get on it now. Like you said 'it's how we phrase it'.

I am not normally the primary care giver. Normally DH and I split it equally as we both work similar hours. I have been off work for a couple of months due to surgery and so by default have become the primary care giver and house cleaner. I think also, that we have always had some level of chaos in our house and just get on with it, two children, jobs etc that's just how it is, but over the last few weeks I have worked hard (and slowly due to recovery) to get on top of this place, decluttered, polished and shined, washing is pretty much sorted (bought a tumble dryer!) most days and so I am watching my hard work get destroyed as quickly as I clean. And the kids are around more as it's summer holidays.

We have got out of our normal routine.

I would love to chuck his towels on his car seat, but it's also my car seat

as for tidying i have also told ds this morning that he needs to tidy up or every single thing on the coffee table except for what i own (re: the tab, remote controls, coasters) is going in the bin.

he's actually done it so i must have looked deranged enough to actually do it

now i feel bad that you feel bad and i don't OP!!

hmm feeling guilty for not feeling guilty... that'll be the catholic upbringing then

chippin oh, I have had a tantrum at him recently about the mess too, hence him cleaning up when I was out with the children

I just don't want to be a wife or mother who rants all the time. I feel ranty right now.

Swallowed I guess this is the problem with the summer holidays. I haven't spent this long with them over summer before, as usually DH and I share the childcare over the summer, with a week all together. Well, actually, last year, I was off for some of it, but very poorly and in bed most of the time (related to my surgery recently).

ok, so I have done more washing, and come to accept it's only washing, it just involved sticking it all back in the machine and putting it on quick wash, it can dry while I am out. The kitchen floor? Oh, fuck it, I will do it when I get home.

Did I tell you also that one of my cats puked all over several clothes that DS pulled out of his chest of drawers while trying to figure out what he wanted to wear? Can I add the cats to my list of annoyances today?

bear in mind as well that even if you feel the cause of the surgery is better now surgery itself really takes it out of you. i had surgery a couple of months ago and was surprised by how long i felt tired and under par for afterwards.

and yes this is what the summer holidays are like if you're unlucky lucky enough to not work over them and so not have the blessing of childcare.

it's a long time and your 7 year old is used to school and routine and order as much as you are. much as they'd be loathe to admit i think they do miss school.

and yes go rant at the cat a bit.

We are going out! I am calm, kids are happy, all is back in order with the Sun House, so best go now before I find something to get mad about again.

It was honestly not just 'i'm really pissed off'. It was proper full on 'AAAARRRRRGH' and I chucked my toys out of the pram. I can see how that must be for a toddler as that is what happened, and once I was mad, I found it hard to calm down again. I didn't feel angry, or violent or sweary, just very very frustrated at the injustice of the world and my lot as washer woman!

well done for calming down! and what you felt was entirely rational ok? it IS bloody frustrating and they did all need to pull their finger out.

enjoy going out.

swallowed that's exactly what the OH doctor told me when I had my assessment. He said he didn't think I should return to work yet, and when I do, it will be on a phased return as I will be surprised at how tired I will feel going back, he said surgery itself messes up our fitness and can take a long time to recover from, regardless of the actual reason for surgery.

I forget that. I can't rant at the cats; they know they are in trouble and have made themselves scarce

Well I have got no excuse regarding surgery etc, I'm just feeling the rage anyway! Totally sympathise - we have three dc, and the youngest (5y) is like a whirlwind leaving a trail of destruction in her wake, and getting her to tidy up after herself would test the patience of Job.

You are not alone, but well done for having some success today. I'm currently parked in the kitchen, I'm keeping an eye on the eggs boiling but more importantly getting 10 mins peace!