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Teaching DC how to accept responsibility

14 replies

bunchamunchycrunchycarrots · 02/08/2013 14:25

Before I start this, I just want to say I realise that most kids refuse to accept blame for things that go wrong, and the common default is to say 'it wasn't me' when faced with getting into trouble over stuff. My issue is how to teach my 8 yr old DD to better understand that a actions/words/deeds have consequences and that it's better to take responsibility than lie about it/blame some one/thing else. I suspect I've been dealing with this all wrong and need some other ideas/suggestions on how to improve this situation.

My DD is 8 and has more recently become prone to lying about things she's said/done than admit when she's in the wrong. She prefers to enter the realms of fantasy than help with practical solutions to problems she creates. Mainly, I suspect because her ability to concentrate/focus on the present/job at hand is so poor. It's an issue we are having with school work i.e. she disappears into her own world instead of listening to her teacher, misses the point of the lesson, and then day dreams some more because she doesn't know what to do.

She moves things, leaves things where they aren't supposed to and then can't remember what she's done with them. She then lies about what has happened to it i.e. a ghost took it, an monster ate it, a spell was cast etc. do trying to get her to trace back to when she last had it is impossible.

She recently lost 2 expensive items I cannot replace. She took them out of home, despite being repeatedly told she wasn't allowed, and left them behind at an activity weeks ago. She only told me this 3 days ago so I had no chance to contact the person in charge to see if they had been found etc. We were invited to a friends house yesterday and all the kids played together. The hosts child has several of the same expensive items and was told not to bring them out for all to play with. This was ignored and all were playing with the items. The one DD was playing with has gone missing. To be clear, it's not been stolen, but I suspect this is what host is thinking, given the text I received earlier. DD suggested yesterday that a bird had taken it to make a nest, I've been asked to find out what DD did with it/ where she put it as the boy is 'devastated'. I've said ill speak to DD but knowing her, I have zero chance of getting anything like a coherent explanation of what she did with it. I'm fur to collect her tomorrow and will speak to her but I already know how the conversation will go.

My question is how do I get DD to not get defensive and give me some idea on how to try and find this bloody thing? I suspect that she's simply put it down somewhere and will not remember where. I just don't know how to get past that to get some possibly useful information that might result in the item being found. I also suspect that we won't get another invitation to this home again, given the tone of the text I got earlier so while I don't want to suggest DD is responsible for us being 'shunned' I want to explain in a round about way that upsetting someone by being careless with their things is her responsibility IYSWIM.

Sorry for typos etc. but on iPhone.

Any help/suggestions?

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bunchamunchycrunchycarrots · 02/08/2013 21:10

Bump

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plipplops · 03/08/2013 08:52

Blimey. I'm hoping someone else has a more positive suggestion but here are my thoughts...

In the 'How to talk so your kids will listen...' book (which admittedly I haven't read for a while) it suggests writing notes to your children as a non-agressive way to communicate (e.g. a note from the child's bedroom stuck to the door saying "I'm really upset at being so messy...") Could you do a note from the lost item saying "I'm lost and I really want to get home, please help find me?" or is that really lame?

What would happen if you just sat her down and explained v concisely that you need to find X, and if you don't find it then the other child's parent won't let her go and play there ever again? Then leave her to think about it for a while. If she does nothing and it doesn't get found then remind her next time she wants to go and play there that she cant because she lost the item.

In general if she loses something she later needs, do you solve the problem for her (replace the item or help her find an alternative), or does she have to deal with the consequences? In the situation with the friend's item, do you know it's definitely her fault (so do you think she definitely knows where it is?) If so, could you make her do jobs for the next however many months until a replacement is paid for?

Sorry if they're not very helpful, she sounds incredibly frustrating I feel for you.

FrequentFlyerRandomDent · 03/08/2013 09:15

I have that very issue with eldest DD, but she is a tad younger.

I find that DD is more receptive if I manage to dissociate blame from responsibility. It is very tricky for me but sometimes I manage.

In the example you hav given and given you want to find it, I would turn it into a game prince X must find Y or princess XYZ is given to Dragon, smarties for players whipo help win the game or something along the lines.... I woukd keep discussion/punishment for later tbh as my priority would be short term cooperation.

In the long run, I would refuse to buyexle case items for DD for Xmas, etc until she has say six month track record of not losing lesser value items.

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LadyLech · 03/08/2013 09:41

I have two DDs (9 and 6) and I am very clear with them about no lying. They have to be absolutely honest with me, otherwise they get a punishment.

For example, last term my DD got a red card at school for being naughty. She didn't want to tell me about it. I was very clear that I would find out, and that she cold either a) be honest and tell me all about it, I'd give her some advice on how to deal with the situation better next time and then we could forget about it, or B) she could lie about it, I'd find out by asking her big sister / the teacher / the other child, and then she would get a punishment for lying. She eventually went with option a Grin.

My children always get a worse punishment for lying / being dishonest than the actual crime, and I find that encourages honesty. They know the truth will out in the end, i get more cross by lying and they're always worse off if they lie.

Furthemore, I don't punish things for accidents - these are not really their fault etc, but if they have been told not to do something, and they do, then that is disobedience and they are responsible for it. So I wouldn't punish my children for breaking something per se, but if I had told them not to take it, they ignored that and did it anyway, and then lost it, I would be making my children save up some money to replace it. For example, when my dd1 was about six, she was skipping in the front room. I told her not to as she would break something. She ignored me, and carried on skipping. She broke my favourite ornament. I didn't get cross, but I explained to her that she had been told not to, that was the reason why she had been told not to, she had been disobedient and broke it, so she had to make things better again. She therefore had to save up some money to help me replace the item she had broken. She used her pocket money that she already had saved up, did chores etc and helped to raise the money to replace the item. She is now a lot more careful about skipping in the living room Grin

Unless children are made to make amends for what they do wrong. How are they ever going to learn from them? I'd say at 8, your daughter is more than old enough to feel the consequences of her actions - but would ask whether you have ever enforced this? It doesn't have to be shouting and discipline, but the simple expectation that if they break / lose things then they have got to help make the situation right again. My six year old does this, and fully understands (although she is by no means perfect), she does at least respect my / others property.

FrequentFlyerRandomDent · 03/08/2013 12:44

I like ladylech suggestion to make DD work to replace lost item.

I will try some of it at home too.

bunchamunchycrunchycarrots · 03/08/2013 12:59

Thanks for the replies, will have a proper read through and take some of the suggestions to see if they work. The lost item has turned up. But I think the host has formed a negative opinion of DD despite this being the result of her forgetfulness and not something more sinister which her earlier text implied. Entirely her call but I'm disappointed tbh.

The issue with the lies isn't quite straightforward unfortunately. DD knows how I dislike her telling lies but she's getting very mixed messages from her dad as he's showing her that he lies to me, gets her to lie to me and that it's just a 'laugh' because I'm just a killjoy. So while I have done a lot of what has been suggested i.e. more severe punishment if she lies instead of owning up, she is getting a different message from her dad which makes what I try and do more difficult. I'm still trying to figure out how to deal with that, but my main concern is that DD gets to understand responsibility and to be honest, for everyone's sake as well as her own.

I'm going to sit her down and talk to her about this, and other lies, tonight and see if I can get through to her.

Thanks again for the replies.

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bunchamunchycrunchycarrots · 03/08/2013 13:37

plipplops I like the suggestion of the room asking to be tidied, I've not tried that. I think that would strike a chord with DD given her tendency to imagine things as an explanation to her losing things.

I'm also going to try the 'earning' back the cost of the lost items. I've tried that in the past but ended up costing me more than I could reasonably afford, with DD skimming through tasks as opposed to doing them properly, so it failed on a number of levels. She's older now so she should get on better with that now.

Thanks again.Smile

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Andro · 03/08/2013 16:03

LadyLech has explained my methodology almost exactly.

With that said, it seems to me that if your DD's dad is lying to you and encouraging her to lie to you then he is the major problem here.

Irrespective of mixed messages, I would come down on the lies like a ton of bricks - send a very strong message that lying to you is unacceptable whatever anyone else says.

bunchamunchycrunchycarrots · 03/08/2013 16:27

Andro, the tonne of bricks is what I'm contemplating at the moment. I'm unsure exactly how to 'deliver' them as the repercussions mean her dad will, in all likelihood, walk away and not bother with DD. She's already worried about her dad giving her into trouble about inadvertently letting me know about some of the lies he's telling, and getting her to tell as well. Easy decision to make if he's a complete arse but DD loves him and really enjoys their time together. So I'm still considering how to deal with it. I usually have to use 'amateur psychology' with him but that's not as easy when I need to be blunt in what I'm trying to get across. DD already knows the restrictions on her choices, and it's coming down to me having to pull her up on not speaking up about something she knows she isn't supposed to do when her dad suggests it. That's a pretty shitty position for any 8 yr old to be in - being expected to be more responsible with decision making than her own dad. All because her dad thinks its some big game to 'get one over' on me no matter how it affects DD.

Trying to get across the message about taking responsibility and being honest isn't easy when she's effectively having to take responsibility for her dad not parenting her, to her detriment, and being taught how its one big laugh to lie to me. Mixed messages aplenty.

Thanks for your input, I do appreciate the suggestions.

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Andro · 03/08/2013 16:42

Damn, your DD is in a lousy position OP and I don't envy you the task at hand.

DS has 'lost' a couple of 'friends' (no great loss imo) because of my policy on lies. I have 2 simple rules:

  1. If I ask a question I expect an honest answer (and I punish a deliberate lie severely - it carries the the harshest sanction in the house)
  1. If you're unsure whether I need to know, tell me anyway and I can give guidance (this is the one that has resulted in a 'loss' of 'friends' because he's told me things that I have then acted on)

Losing a couple of lousy friends is one thing, it's different when it her dad though. I really hope someone can give you some more constructive advice, I have no idea how I'd deal with your situation. Sending you Wine ...I think you need it in this situation!

DameFanny · 03/08/2013 16:48

How about with the lies her father expects her to tell, you give her a signal she can give you to let you know it's a lie? That way she's not lying, but not challenging him. And it also let's her know you're on her side, and that you recognise the position she's in?

bunchamunchycrunchycarrots · 03/08/2013 17:01

Thanks for that dame. The trouble is, DD sees me as being a bit of a 'tyrant' in terms of not being as 'free and easy' about what she wants to do when compared to her dad, so is quite enjoying the conspiring to lie bit with her dad. I was pretty harsh with her on thurs about that, and that's when she pleaded with me not to speak to her dad about the lies. For that reason she wouldn't agree to the signal thing as she'd rather go along with it (she sees it as funny as that's how her dad is putting it across). I'm also not overly keen to be seen to pit us both against each other, with DD in the middle. I'm aiming for dealing with them both separately, but trying to figure out how to do that so she's comfortable saying no to something her dad suggests, by getting the message lying is bad, being honest is good and taking responsibility also good. Does that make sense?

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Andro · 03/08/2013 17:14

It makes sense, but I don't see a path to making it happen. You're not going to get her to be comfortable refusing to lie when asked by her dad if she is enjoying the 'game' and seeing it as funny. The minute you get her understand that lying and shirking responsibility are bad things and not funny/a game, she is in the position of either having to challenge her dad's authority or disobey your teaching.

The only way I can see to avoid her having to choose who to obey, is to get her dad to stop lying (and encouraging her to do the same).

bunchamunchycrunchycarrots · 03/08/2013 17:28

I think that's why I'm going round in circles over what to do, and how to do it. It is an impossible ask of her to say no to her dad when he's dangling something in front of her, telling her how brilliant it is, and not to worry about telling me as they'll just not tell me, with a Wink Christ, I knew it got tougher as they get older but I'm tying myself in knots trying to deal with this. I could certainly do with Wine you offered earlier!

Part of me thinks I can only influence her so just concentrate on giving her the example of how to behave and what behaviour I expect, with the suggestions on consequences made. But the other part of me needs to speak to her dad to try and get through to him why he needs to stop this, to take that pressure off DD.

I will think on it some more, and decide by tomorrow. DD staying an extra night at her gran's so will mull it over some more.

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