The constant battle..

[dadyp]

At the moment it feels like being around my 2 dear boys (3 & 5) is one long constant relentless battle...

I feel really bad this morning as I just lost my patience and shouted STOP IT! causing the oldest to cry and the youngest to look at me strangely (a very shameful event which I have now apologised to them for...).

It just appears from the moment they wake up to the moment they go to sleep its one long slog.

The oldest just takes so long to get dressed its not funny, doesn't matter how long I say hurry up he just is in his own world! I have to literally hand each item of clothing to him or it doesn't get wrong...
When they finally get downstairs (good example this morning) arguing over who has the biggest EMPTY bowl.. Then try and ask what they want for breakfast - just talk about the bloody bowl! finally oldest comes to take a look and just stares at the cereals... which is when I started to really loose my rag!

Luckily oldest is at school and youngest in daycare today so could get some work done (have my own business) - kids come home and it starts again... Both of them are MEGA fussy eaters, I try so many things but they just don't want to eat anything... even fish fingers failed to work today!

If I turn my back for a moment they are somehow fighting about something - or want something else... daddy daddy, mummy mummy - I dont like that I want this etc etc.

I have to say things to them 100 times and even then usually have to hand hold them into doing something - don't get me wrong they are not bad kids and I love them very much but right now I just feel like a bad parent for just wanting some prolonged peace!

I have upmost respect for single parents - I am married and whilst my wife is a little more "hands off" then most mums she is still there... but man this is hard & relentless..

Anyway rant over - now just got to try and get them to bed (and hope they don't come and disturb us in the night)....

Hi Dadyp

I have no advise or solution for you. I just didn't want to read and run. I really sympithise with you, as i too have two little boys, a lot younger then yours and a very small age gap. Some days are a blur. But be strong parenting is not easy but I'm sure you and your wife are doing a great job. I guess your post is a glimpse into my future.

Hi there. It's so hard with two lo's! Mine are 4.5yo and nearly 8mo. The relentlessness of it does wear you down, and I often find myself ready to lose it over small things, like ds1 taking ages picking at food or dawdling getting dressed in the morning before school when we are running late. I've just started reading a book called 'Calmer Easier Happier Parenting' and I really recommend it. I'm not normally a 'self-help' type of person, but this book understands the irritations and hardships of parenting that you have mentioned above and gives you practical ways to improve your dc's behaviour so they don't faff about and dawdle and not get things done, and so that you don't end up losing the plot and yelling "get your shoes on NOW!" All the best!

Sounds like a good book mummy I might order that
I yell at dd1 quite a bit for exactly the same kind of stuff. We have just started a sticker chart for mostly getting dressed nicely because this is what I was blowing my top over. I think you have to evaluate what are the most challenging things day to day and start there. I think with a 3 year old you need to stand over them getting dressed anyway. With the bowls and cereal remove some choice. Insist they take turns with the bowl and give only two cereals to choose from. Be firm. Build in more structure and be strict about sitting/eating nicely.

Wrt the fussy eating I'd be inclined to just cook what you like and let them get in with it. Dd1 is as fussy as I let her be. I used to pander much more but now if she refuses food it's tough.

One suggestion on the getting dressed front - ds1 (4.2) now mostly dresses himself before I go up to his room in the morning, he knows that once he wakes up he should get dressed and then play quietly in his room. It means he can potter about slowly as much as he likes but it doesn't bother me. Does make for some slightly odd clothes combinations but it's worth it for the lack of battles about what he's going to wear/speed etc.

It is so wearing some days though especially I find when you have to be out the house for a certain time and hurry up seems to mean slow down in child speak.

The problem is getting stuck in that cycle..... can you get a whole day where you are not looking after them/ catching up with work?

You need that to break the cycle. Try giving direct orders rather than nagging. Try "are you having coco pops or shreddies?" and give them 10 seconds to choose. Try "get dressed" rather than any pleading with a time limit. If they are not dressed by that time tell them it's time to go now and take them as they are. Also try leaving their clothes laid out for them to avoid them having to faff around.

Unless they have food allergies cook them what you are having, if they don't like it there's nothing else. I menu plan for shopping so they know on the morning what we are having. They could make their own pizzas - you can get the bases/ topping and give them a selection of cheese/mushrooms/ham etc. to decorate.

When they arguing give them jobs to do - x get the bowls out please, y get the milk please.

I also keep to routine - after school there is snack time (again I give minimal choice) then they play for 30 mins and are not to interrupt me unless someone's on fire etc then we do homework/dinner/play/bath etc.

When I read that back I sound like a right old cow but it works for us. I was in your position a little while ago, I also don't get a break as have no babysitters and it can be relentless when you all spend your time on top of each other, trying to fit everything in.

I think firm but fair and a routine will be your friend.

Good post Wiley I agree.
I think I will make firm but fair my mantra!

nothing more to add but a really excellent post from Wiley.

yep, my 2 are very similar and are 3 and 7. One of the tactics I developed ref the not listening thing is say things once and if they can't be bothered to listen I don't repeat it. It's amazing what they can recall when they put their minds to it!

Oh and re getting ready for school I remember one morning DS1 going to school without his shoes due to him not listening to me telling him to put his shoes on, I noticed and put them in the car. Half way up the road I asked him where his shoes were an he said oh I forgot to put them on. I told him it was too late to go back and he would just have no shoes for today. He burst into tears and then slightly guiltily I told him I had picked them up. He never forgot to get dressed again!

They sound like perectlynormal 3 & 5 year olds.
There is no point in saying something to them 100 times. Say it once like you mean it - and then you have to get involved and deal with it if they don't listen.
They cannot just occupy themselves whilst you are busy. You need to organise something for them to be doing and supervise them getting dressed etc.
I think perhaps you expect them to be acting older than they are??

Great advice Wiley. I really struggle with certain flashpoints too - getting hair done, teeth brushing etc. I struggle to find the right tone and consequences. DD was faffing about getting her PJs on so she ended up with less tv than usual, but by the teeth brushing faff I was at the end of my tether.

I will try firm but fair but really find it hard to keep my emotions in check! I'm reading 123 Magic which is v helpful.

Wiley
You don't sound like a right cow at all - You sound like you have your head screwed on right and tackle these issues with common sense and consistency which is what is required.
You have to be clear what you want to happen - and be consistent and get that across to a child.
If anyone says they have told a child a hundred times and yet the child is still not doing whatever it is - then common sense would tell you that you are doing something wrong and makes me wonder why anyone keeps repeating something that is not working.
Its amazing that grown adults can be rendered helpless by such little people ;)

Thanks for all the replies folks,

Wiley - gosh I have tried so many things...

For dinner times - I originally was of the same mindset, they will get what they are given or thats it (whilst DW would want to give them what they eat). I did this religiously for about 1 month - every single dinner time was a battle, saw what was on their plate and then the "I don't like that, I don't like this". So we say eat what you want but thats it...Some meals (e.g. Spag Bol, mild curry) just point blank refuse would rather go hungry and mealtimes was just one big stressful unhappy event.. Kids unhappy, I'm unhappy DW unhappy... They would rather go hungry than eat something (certainly not anything new). Just wears you down with no end in site, it just seems they just decide they don't like these things (and to be fair I was the most fussy eater ever as a child, I wouldn't eat rice/pasta only white bread thinly cut...). I'm thinking of trying the other extreme - give them something they currently like (e.g. plain pasta, with no sauce (as sauce is on the I dont like list)) and just feed it to them every day for 2 weeks until they get bored and then add some peas (which they will eat at a push).

As I am sure most can relate it just grinds you down every single day - I know they are still young and its not their fault but it isn't half annoying :)

For getting ready - again tried many things, usually leave DS1 to get ready (put his clothes out he just needs to put them on) however he struggles a little at school so using the teachers advice I try and work with him on his phonics/reading etc in the morning before school so if he is delayed that suffers (which of course he wouldn't mind) - thing is he isn't doing it to be bad, he just day dreams, hes in the same place getting ready but just looking around talking to himself...

Also tried the get your bowls out, you can have X or Y cereal - but I turn my back and then DS1 is going na-na-na-na-na I have the biggest bowl (although practically identical) - tell him to stop that DS2 then has swapped bowls, DS1 screams etc etc....

Am sure we will get there one day.. but appreciate everyones support

If this was me I would make some changes. Take them to buy new bowls which they must choose and commit to. Tell them it's their choice but you will accept no more nonsense about it.
The doing the phonics stuff in the morning sounds like added pressure. Mind you I suppose he won't want to do it after school either.

With the getting dressed you could make it in to a contest with a timer and a sticker chart. Actually you could do a sticker chart for a few of these issues. I'm doing one with dd1 for getting dressed etc and so far so good. I let her choose what she wanted to work toward and she's quite motivated.

I think if a child picks up you are anxious about whether they will or will not do what they are asked to do or you are not confident about how you want them to behave - they misbehave!

Your boys are 3 & 5 and you shouted 'Stop It' and you are now reading yourself the riot act??? For God Sake man cut yourself some slack!!

You need some rules.

You need a firm tone of voice you aren't scared of using.

You need to use that firm tone of voice and take the control back off of your kids.

Fussy eaters are a pain in the arse - but you know what, I think if you listed down all the things they are prepared to eat, you'd find it's not too bad and kids like predictability, they really don't care if it's the same thing week in week out. So the max you need is 7 dinners they eat.

Don't ask what they want for breakfast, buy one box of cereal and give them that (though frankly, I'd be giving them something with more protein/fat and less sugar in it for breakfast - even sugar free cereals are just sugar in a bowl once they hit your bloodstream).

1. - if the worst that happens is that you shout stop it! you are doing ok
2. - think outside the box on the stress points - I love the idea of getting them to choose their own bowls and stick to them,

I wouldn't do phonics in the morning, we do ours at around 4:30 - been in, had snack, played a bit, not yet dinner time. dd2 likes doing it while I cook (but that requires a bit of juggling)

Dressing - I have 3 dcs aged 10, 8 and 5. They were all capable of getting dressed before they started school - nursery age - and became totally incapable during reception. A bit to do with time pressure (which IMHO means they go slower) and wanted to be babied a bit because school is expecting them to be more grown up. I now just sit on dd2s bed handing her each piece of clothing until she is dressed. this is better than a few months ago, when I had to get her dressed. I know that in about 6 months she will do it herself. So build in the five minutes to help, don't stress it. Make them do it themselves at the weekend.

Where you can do it the night before eg clothes.

They sound very normal. There is a great book about siblings without rivalry which I liked, (same authors as the 'How to talk so children will listen')

And the relentlessness does get better - you might even find yourself missing the toddler years!!

The book I mentioned has a few techniques you can use to try to get them to do what you tell them to without dawdling loads or complaining - one of which is called Descriptive Praise. You start off by making the effort to comment on things that they have done that pleased you, eg. "I saw you tidied away your sister's bowl as well as your own" or even at the beginning just commenting on absence of bad behaviour - "you walked all the way round the supermarket with me and didn't bite me on the bottom once". Rather than over-the-top "that's wonderful!" or "well done, so clever" which can sound ineffective if they aren't getting this sort of praise from other adults - they quickly start to assume you either don't mean it, or are just expressing that you love them, rather than praising genuine good behaviour or effort. Nothing wrong with making them feel loved, but they will gain more confidence and be happier if you build up their self-confidence to do things for themselves.

So for eg. in the mornings, rather than constantly running about yelling "I told you to get dressed! Why are you naked with pants on your head?!" the aim is to comment and show recognition for what they have achieved - "I see you've managed to get both socks on without asking for help". Then they feel good about doing something self-sufficient and the next morning they might put their socks and their pants on. And so on. It's slow going at first, and you might feel like a bit of a loon commenting on loots of trivial things that they do, but the point is that if you are pointing out to them the things they have done which are good and you like, they start to do these things because they enjoy the positive feedback. And learning to do these things routinely becomes a habit. I hope that makes sense!

Mine's 7 on Monday and I still have to stand next to him getting dressed saying take your pj top off, take your pj shorts off. Put your pants on. Put your trousers on. Put your shirt on etc etc.

Get them to do their own breakfast. My DS felt very proud when he managed to achieve this. I put out a small jug of milk (for minimal spillage) and 2 boxes of cereal. Take them to buy 2 breakfast bowls of their choice so they won't fight over them. My DS has mickey mouse.

He is also a fussy eater. It's not that he dislikes lots of things, it's just whether he wants to eat them on that particular day. What helped us was every Friday night we choose a meal plan for the following week. We cut out/draw pictures and stick them on the meal plan and put it on the fridge so everyone knows what we are having. You could do it so everyone takes it in turns to pick the evening meal for each day.

Also getting my DS involved in buying the ingredients helped. After doing the meal plan DS helps me go through the cupboards to see what we need to buy. Then we make a shopping list (again with pictures) and he comes to the supermarket with me to find these items. We make a game of it.

Also I find he eats better if I let him serve up his own dinner. So I will put serving dishes in the middle of the table and everyone helps themselves to what they want.

nappy - that's a lovely idea with the meal plans.

Mine aren't fussy eaters, but have particular strong preferences. I have found that if I serve what they like with little comment, but other things are on the table, then they eventually start to try the new things. It is all about not making a fuss/comment.

And I totally agree with descriptive praise it also helps you sanity to point out things they can actually do