DS (4.5) telling lies and demonising DP

[spotofcheerfulness]

Am at my wits end so any help much appreciated.
Me and DP are both self-employed and share childcare 50/50. However, from birth it seems, both have been very pro-me and anti DP. He adores them and is a loving and playful dad, but the constant rejection is making him very depressed.
This morning, I overheard DS1 (4.5) telling him "we don't want you" as he went downstairs to get them dressed, and this afternoon, he made up some story about DP hitting him and wanting him to live with another family. He quickly admitted it was made up but didn't seem in the slightest bit bothered about it.
He's very aggressive and defiant with both of us at the moment (he's always been very shy and sensitive before - and was picked on by another boy before he moved preschools). But this making up things about DP hitting him are on a new scale. It's funny, they can have a lovely afternoon together in the garden or the park, but then DS will turn and get aggressive for no apparent reason.
It makes me so sad to see this relationship already so strained (DP is now afraid of his response when he greets him in the morning as he knows his "hello" will be met immediately with a "go away") and I don't know where to go from here.
Has anyone experienced similar and have any tips?
TIA

We sometimes have similar - usually the 'go away' response is if she is having fun with someone else. we tell her she is being unkind, that Daddy is sad and make her say sorry. doesn't stop her saying it, but she does feel bad if she knows he is upset. Has he read any stories or know any other families where the daddy has had to go away or something similar? My DD will often confuse stories with real life. Also, she is much, much worse if she is tired, which might tie in with the afternoon thing - she can be a real pig when she's tired!

i also used to 'prime' her before DH was getting in, and say 'it makes Daddy so happy when you say hello and give him a hug and aask how his day was' - if I 'gave' her a line to say, she was concentrating on it so hard, she forgot to be mean. She is now much more pleasant.

Oh dear sounds pretty miserable for your dp and quite manipulative of your ds tbh.

I would have a zero tolerance approach to it because its almost like your ds is 'bullying' his dad

You must show a united front, for example if I was your dp and my 4yo son said 'go away' to me when I had said 'good morning' I would be very cross. I would get down to his level and say firmly that it is not o.kay to speak to me like that and if he speaks to me in an unkind way again there will be a consequence. Who implements the discipline because it sounds like your ds has no respect for his father.

I think you're right, girliefriend . And DP does get annoyed with him sometimes, but usually lets it go because he doesn't want to "bully him into loving him". But you've got it on the head when you say
DS is bullying his dad.
We both do discipline (probably DP more) but we've not been super strict about consequences for words, just actions (e.g he gets sent to stand by the front door for hitting but not saying unkind things).

Haggisfan, I sometimes do the "priming thing" which does work to an extent - it's often when he's expecting me and gets DP that his reactions are worst. I tell him it makes DP sad, but he doesn't seem that bothered that he's sad.
I fear that he's the "sensitive child" that's been able to develop some unpleasant behaviours because we've let things go because of big changes (new baby, house move, preschool move, etc). It makes me so mad and I do want to discipline him for it but DP is against it because he wants affection for him to come naturally, not because of a reward or punishment, IYSWIM.

it's often when he's expecting me and gets DP that his reactions are worst

I think this is probably important, many children struggle with change and surprises and your DS has had a lot of changes that may be making him unsettled. Consequently he get's anxious (and rude) to his Dad when what he is anticipating to happen, i.e. you coming in to him, is changed.

So explain to him that his behaviour is rude and unkind and making his Daddy sad and explain that it's not acceptable and there will be consequences but also work to eliminate surprises. Maybe at bed time talk through what's going to happen the next day, who's going to be looking after him etc and do you darndest to stick to it!

i think you need to be strict on his rudeness and make sure theres a united front. I would have let him know that I heard him being mean to dp and that it was horrid and untrue and to say sorry.

Is it possible for your dp and ds to have a special bonding fun day, or regular activity that they do together without you.

Its all very well wanting a bond to come naturally, but sometimes its worth accepting that it needs to be worked on. A common ground to be found, and rudeness not tolerated, because if he speaks to him like that at 4, its not going to be much fun at 14.

I completely understand OP. DS age3 has always shown marked preference for me and frequently tells DH to go away, cry as if scared and will even try to push him from the room. He'll say I don't love you but could have a lovely day out with DH.

DH kind and tries hard but did miss early months as found adjusting a problem and I have wondered if this is linked.

I'm hard line about it: explain it's unkind and hurtful. Refuse to interact until he's said sorry or I just walk away which is v hard. Had long chat one day about what it means to say I love you and how much it hurts to say you don't. Since then he has said it much less.

I also prime as above and point out/ remind DS when DH has done something kind or taken out for treat. We always talk about his day at bedtime so I use this time especially.

No magic ideas but wanted you to know you're not alone. His behaviour/manners etc in all other respects are pretty impeccable (by toddler standards!) so it's not a discipline issue IMHO.

If you find a way to fix it let me know!

Thank you everyone . I really do appreciate your comments. And I find it reassuring that there's consensus about being strict when he's rude or unkind. I thought some people might say "oh it's just a phase, ride it out" but I do feel like I need to intervene - and DP and i need to be consistent in our responses.

MothershipG I think that's a great idea about talking him through who he's going to see when he first wakes up, the night before. Often the day starts badly when he sees DP first, so I'll give that a try.

Branleuse, we tried the whole bonding day thing last year, and Dp took him to London and he was a bit "meh" about it despite a lot of effort on DP's part, so maybe some smaller scale, one on one activities might be a good idea. Also, we do a lot of taking turns at weekends, meaning the kids share us all the time. So I think some one-one-one time with each of us would help too.

HPsauce, glad to hear I'm not alone! I think I'll try the zero tolerance approach and see what happens!

With little ones, little and often is better for one to one time, 5 minutes daily is better than a whole day one a month.

I'm not quite sure how to put this, so please ignore if it sounds odd. Your DP sounds a little insecure about DS's love for him, which DS may find a little off putting. A couple of your comments about DP saying you can't force DS to love him and the making a big effort for a trip to London. It's lovely that your DP cares so much, so that isn't a criticism, I just wonder whether your DS actually finds it a bit difficult.

My belief is that as parents our job is to raise our children to be good adults, not to get them to like us. Yes, I hope that my DC love me but I know that they can't always like me, because my job is to ensure they can fit into the world. So, sometimes they can't have everything they want and they cannot be allowed to treat people badly. But children thrive and feel love and respect for parents who are firm and fair with clear boundaries, as well as being loving and fun.

Hope that makes sense.

when dd2 went through a phase of this I used to react with mock horror,
"that's not very nice, poor daddy!" and shower him with a big hug and my attention, almost as if he were another child. She got the message and is very much daddy's girl now.

Yes I'd treat it as a punishable thing. Mock horror as said above is a great idea too - although I'd get your DP to do it and get him to make a joke out of if at all poss.

DS rejected me for around a year between 1-2. Sounds silly but it was heartbreaking.

My DS went through a phase like this. DH would arrive home from work to have the living room door slammed in his face and "GO AWAY, Daddy". Plus lots of "I hate Daddy" etc.

But, Ds also loved his bedtime stories with DH, and going for bike rides and trips to the park with DH while I stay home.

So DH and I decided to ignore the problem. DH had to learn to focus on all the lovely actions and ignore the hurtful words. I'm not saying he found it easy, but doing a bit of research and coming up with a plan of action and knowing I wasn't condoning the behaviour all helped.

DS has now pretty much grown out of the phase. All that remains is a tendency for he and his DSis to fight over who sits next to me. But that is more of a sibling issue than a problem with DH.

It is a horrible time, but it isn't personal and is surprisingly common.

Sorry for the late reply, and thanks for all the recent comments. It is good to know that it's quite common, although I know it doesn't make it hurt DP any less.

Ballstoit I totally agree with your post in theory, but I do think it's natural to want to have our children want to be with us and for us to find their constant rejection painful. I think with DP it's more marked than maybe with some families because he left his job so he could be more present with the family (I had PND, DS2 had some big health problems and couldn't cope alone). So I think the fact that we have 50/50 time with them makes it harder, he can't rationalise it by saying "maybe DS1 is rejecting me because I'm not around enough". And doesn't have a job to boost his self esteem in other ways (he's currently retraining). But I am on board with the "little and often" and will try and encourage it. Also to have more one on one time with DS1 myself, so he does't feel that he never has any mummy time.

Notmyidea I'm glad that worked for you, will suggest to DP .

Stripedmum I'm sorry this happened to you too. I can see how upsetting it is. Was it something that just faded in time or did you do anything proactive to change things?

Piprabbit that is heartening to know things can change. Can I ask what your research and plan of action were?

Faded in time - and onto the next parenting challenge! It's a distant memory now and hopefully will be for your family soon too.

The research really involved finding some books and references that explained how children go through this sort of phase and very firmly pointing them out to DH (for some reason when it comes to parenting I'm expected to know all the answers and provide him with information) so that he could understand it wasn't personal, long term or indicative of a problem with DS.

Then we decided on our plan of action - which was basically for DS to see me and DD being appreciative and affectionate to DH; lots of family hugs (DS only wanted to hug mummy, but we made sure that daddy got included in a big squidge); carrying on with the daddy/DS activities that they were already doing but bigging up how great daddy is at X,Y and Z. Then we tried to ignore the nasty comments that DS came out with as much as possible - just saying "well, I think daddy is lovely" or giving DH a big hug to help him get over his hurt feelings (usual response to younger children - ignore the 'bully' and give lots of positive attention to the victim).

I honestly don't know if this helped, or if DS just grew out of the phase. But it made DH feel that we were working together as a team, that I was taking his concerns seriously and that we were doing something to address the problem.

Here are a couple of links that were the sort of thing I found for DH.

very good

here

Thank you! I will show the links to DP - hopefully will help him see it's not just him. It's also really reassuring to hear that they will (eventually) grow out of it.
I'm feeling it particularly at the moment as I'm about to get a FT job and DP will be the main carer, so this is good to hear. .

Oh, and piprabbit it's the same with me and DP re-reading parenting books. I'm expected to read them and give him the "bullet points"!

yy re: bullet point . He can read a technical manual or magazine, but parenting stuff seems to be beyond him.