panicking as 5 month old got no semblance of routine

[pennyapples]

hello all
looking for some advice if anybody has the time
my five month old DD has no real routine - my fault I know. But she feeds (ebf) at different times each day - naps at different times each day - settles at different times each day - wakes overnight at different times each day - wakes up in the morning....etc. you get the picture.
this is my fault I know - I just didnt know enough about what I was supposed to do at the beginning and so was kind of stumbling my way through things - and now I'm panicking because we will start on solids soon and probably formula too, and I just dont know how it's going to work.
For example when they say start solids late morning / lunchtime feed after she has had some milk - well the feed around that time is at wildly different times - and sometimes she doesnt want it. its not much of a base for getting her into more of a pattern is it.
am in a mess here. i do try - really I do - but no day is the same despite my best efforts to get her into a routine of bedtime / naptime / four hourly feeds
help!

My LO is 5 mo old too!

This is our "routine": he wakes up between 5-7. Bf, change nappy. Go back to bed and cuddle/bf. Nap.

Wake up between 9-10. Play, bf, change nappy, dress for day. Play some more.

He needs a long nap in middle of day so I'll drive somewhere or walk to park in pram (then come home and park it quietly in hall so I can have lunch and a bit of housework/ me time). Depending what time he woke from morning nap this could be 11/12 to 1/2. I'll wake him by 2.30 if he doesn't wake himself.

Wake up, big bf. Play. 4pmish bf and nap on my lap.

5pm bf, bath, sleeping bag on.

6-7pm cluster feeding.

7/8pm sleep. I'm only just trying to put him upstairs at this point but usually DP has just come home and we want dinner so it's easier to just let him sleep on us.

9pm bottle. 10/11pm bed. He usually settles fairly easily but may wake once or twice for bf in night.

Is your LO a January baby? Come and join us in the postnatal club!

My baby is 4.5 months and we haven't got a routine and that's absolutely fine by me as every day is different. I think ff mums need a pattern to feeds more because they need to have bottles prepared and whatnot but if you're just happy to bfed as and when required then why does it matter?

When you start solids properly you'll get a bit of structure to the day anyway just based around having 3 meals to organise. So the first nap might come between breakfast and lunch, the second between lunch and dinner. Then after dinner no naps because it's coming up for bedtime, that sort of thing.
The thing with routines is that babies don't stick to them. 2 naps might merge into one longer nap, naps get dropped, they decide to have a period of early waking etc. So there's no point in being rigid about them anyway.

Hi OP, just wanted to say that my day is just like that too! DS is almost 9 months and aside from bedtime, which is around 7 (if it's up to half an hour later or earlier I don't panic), then as long as everything else happens through the day at approximately the right time I don't get too hung up on when it happens.

A BF counsellor gave me some great advice when he was three weeks old and I was panicking that he wasn't having the same length feeds at the same time each day - 'he's a person just like you or me and sometimes we don't want to eat the same amount at the same time every day. Some days we are ravenous, and some days we just like to pick at small meals'. I have kept that in mind since then when things stress me out!

hello all
thank you for the replies again - its so reassuring to hear that other people are the same way - and at older ages too!
I have been working hard to let go of the obsession this weekend - talked to DH quite a bit and am deliberately trying to be a bit more 'free and easy'!
I think it's true that the sleep deprivation affects your mental health a bit, well that and the fact that you have nothing else to think about at all. I'm going to keep an eye though on how I'm feeling because I think CBT is always a good back up option if I find I'm getting stressed to the point of crying on a regular basis.
I'm sorry to ask some other questions but just wanted to run a couple of things past you all....
You do all seem to be able to do bedtime - we are struggling with that. we try and put her down at 8 - but she never ever goes to sleep properly until around 10/11 - and then she sleeps pretty well just waking up maybe twice/three times overnight. would you sack off the bedtime and let her go to bed late or would you persist with trying to get her down at a proper bedtime? we spend 2-3 hours in a dimly lit room with lullabies / feeding/suckling etc, and it never works. she'll sometimes go down but wake up ten minutes later, and repeat. but on the nights we've given up and got her up, she's seemed so tired. dont know what is best. and then if she doesnt go to sleep till late - should I let her sleep in?
sorry - I know this must be annoying having all these questions.

If she's not ready to sleep at 8, I wouldn't bother trying then. You could be spending that 2-3 hours feeding and cuddling in front of a DVD box set instead, which I personally find more relaxing :) it's what we do with DD and she has gone from going to sleep for the night at 11:30 to 9:30 with no effort from us.

I would get up at the same time each morning, that's the easiest way to start being a bit more organised. I have to get up to drop DH off for work and find when I get back I get more stuff done if I plan to have a cup of tea and a cake at 10. Then I aim to have lunch at 12ish. That splits the morning up quite nicely and is my routine even if DD doesn't have one.

Hey

I would persist, as you seem to want to get into a routine.

I have been using the baby whisperer (there are two books, the 'solves all your problems' one is your best bet). and I have been doing the pick up/put down technique which has taught my son to settle himself to sleep. I think it's important that you are consistent, and that baby knows that when it's bedtime, that's it (barring necessary feeding during the night). we've always done feeding in the dark also once bedtime is over, no conversation, no play. And if he cries shortly after going down, I know it's not hunger so will just shh him back to sleep.

Hello I would persist with bedtime for a few reasons not least because it makes a massive difference having a couple of hours on the evening to relax and have some 'grown-up' time.

But also because babies need sleep and learning how to settle and sleep well is an important skill.

Bedtime routine for my dd went something like this;

Bath - (about 6pm ish)

Baby massage or kick about on baby mat for few mins

Into p.js

Milk and cuddle

Into baby sleeping bag and cot

Ensure room is really dark (not easy this time of year!)

Soothing music (my dd had baby motzart for bedtimes and still listens to that now - 6 yrs on!!)

I around this age started to leave dd for about 10mins to settle, if she was crying would come back up and reassure (shush/pat) then leave again for 10mins and repeat. Tbh my dd never took longer than about 30mins to settle and I realise that some babies will take much longer, in the long run though it will be so worth it for you.

okay -that's useful thank you
think will certainly ensure we get up at the same time every day and then will try and keep the bedtime the same - in reality I guess it's been very far from the same so there is no hope of her learning what to do
so we'll try and do that and see if things improve a bit
thank you all

Ime babies like routine as they feel safe and secure when they know what to expect next iyswim? I suppose from their point of view the world can seem quite overwhelming and frightening at times so the more they know what to expect the better.

Good luck

We're the same here, he doesn't like going to bed early. I'm with Noble - it's easier just to feed and cuddle in front of telly than spend all evening upstairs trying to settle him. I think he will grow into earlier bedtimes soon though.

At 5 months we didn't have a routine - but it did naturally begin to fall into place after 6 months as meals were introduced - I don't think you should worry about food in relation to milk feeds - honestly. Just start gently introducing solids and you will find that the milk falls off - I was just like you I got totally worried about all the logistics of swapping milk for food/ mealtimes/ routine....

basically somewhere along the way - you will find you have a toddler who eats three meals a day - it will be back and forth with milk/ food/ meals/ breastfeeds - there is no hard and fast path to get there....

I think one thing I would say though - of course everyone is right about relaxing - but if you would like more of a routine then that is okay too! I actually think I went so much with the flow that I hadn't realised how tiring htat was for me - fine for the baby , but with a little routine in the day you can vaguely plan to have a rest/ break yourself etc.

I recommend two things...firstly a book called the Millpond Sleep Clinic book - it is a laid back approach to routine that also really sorted out nighttime wakings.

If you want her to sleep well at night, she needs to know how to fall asleep without the boob. After a breastfeed, you will need to decide that is enough and get her back to sleep without more time on the breast - tough I know, but it really is worth it. Rock/ sing / cuddle etc - I went a slightly tougher route at about 7 months, of putting DS in the cot then patting him when he cried but not picking up - it worked very very quickly and there was not much crying.......he learnt to fall asleep in the cot on his own and stopped the frequent waking.

If you think about it from your babies point of view, she is falling asleep with a nice cosy boob in the mouth, but once its gone she wakes up and doesnt know how to settle herself.

All of this will be so much easier once she is on solids - I found sleep massively improved around 8 months - once DS was on three proper meals a day - then I felt able to stop the constant breastfeeding!

re. our routine - at 5 months I can't remember but surely wake up then a nap every couple of hours? I dont think many 5 months old sleep at the same time every day.

at 6 months DS started doing naps at 9am / 121230pm ish (stressing the ish!) and about 4pm then dropped the 4pm at about 8/9 months

when your little one is a year old all this will be such a distant memory!

I totally agree about getting her to fall asleep without being on the boob - but it's so hard - whenever we try it she just goes straight to screaming and wont be reassured at all
I wonder if the problem is that some times we try and some times we give in - so there is no concerted effort at doing it?
Good to know that a) solids may help and b) no need to worry so much about introducing them and working around the milk
suppose am more worried because am also planning on introducing formula at the same time and that's two things to work out - along with thinking about moving to the cot (not that she exactly loves the crib) and her own room.... a lot all at once

I think that one of the reasons solids help is psychological - from your point of view! When you have seen a 7 or 8 month old wolf down a massive dinner and then have a big feed of milk at bedtime, you will be a lot less inclined to breastfeed again an hour or two later when they wake.

ditto with formula - watching them gulp down the milk means you feel more confident when trying to get them back to sleep without more milk.

you will get there gradually - one step forward one back etc, I do think that if you want to stop the constant waking /BF in the evening you have to be a little bit tough - decide for example that you will not feed unless it has been 4 hours (at night) or 3 or whatever suits you - and then if its between that, pat back to sleep in cot or do pick up cuddle, put back down ..repeat and repeat! the patting in cot works quickest but you might feel mean! first night ds cried for 15 mins twice....while DP patted him and sang to him..... then fell asleep in cot. second night didnt wake....

its not completely regular, his sleep varies ....but it did stop the evening wakes before midnight pretty quickly....