How do I stop my 7 month old waking for feeding overnight?

[sbvet1]

Hi,
I'm a first time poster, so apologies if this is old hat, but I'm at the end of my tether with sleeplessness! My 7 month old boy is still waking regularly at night for breast-feeding and I've tried the cuddle and settle technique, but its not working. I don't know that I agree with/have got the heart for controlled crying, but wondered what other parents thought.
He goes to bed at 7.45pm and will wake consistently at 10.30-11pm for a feed, then at 1-2am and possibly 4-5am, waking up at 7.30am (although this pattern is not consistent, he willl never sleep through). He needs a feed at each wake-up, but not at 7.30am..... He is great during the day and is taking well to weaning.
Any top tips, or do I just need to be more strict?
Thanks in advance

Hi sbvet, I'm sorry I don't have any advice, my 10 mth old wakes literally at exactly the times you've stated for a feed! He does have a good feed though so I've just gone with it assuming he's hungry. I'd love to change it though.

I watch with interest and am with you in sympathy!

Do you feed him to sleep by any chance. Mine stopped waking at night when I stopped feeding to sleep. They were a little older though. Maybe 8 or 9 months.

Firstly what you are experiencing is normal baby sleep, ignore anyone who tells you otherwise. According to these sleep studies only 16% of six month olds reliably sleep through. Also at 7 months bfing mums get more sleep than their ffing peers. Have a look at the isis website. Its good for looking at what is normal and a great starting point when you want to make changes, with evidence based information on your side . Also, other parents lie.

Having said all that there are things you can do. What's his feeding like in the day? Has he dropped any feeds? Could he be reverse cycling? Where does he sleep? Have you read the No Cry Sleep Solution by Elizabeth Pantley or Sound Sleep by Sarah Woodhouse? You might also like 31 ways to get your baby to sleep and stay asleep and 12 alternatives for the all night nurser.

I think the important thing here is to remember that night weaning doesn't mean no night waking and if you cut down on night feeds you need to think of how you will get Lo back to sleep.

Mine also wakes at nearly exactly those times, but I leave her to self settle. She now does this without crying. But she is definitely awake!

Also, I didn't let her wake her for a 10.30/11am...I woke her up (even if she was totally out of it). Fed her then put straight back down.

I think you do need to be more strict! I know what you're saying about controlled crying, but it's really much worse for you than for the baby, so I just looked at it as being worse for me but worth it because baby needed her sleep. Cruel to be kind and all that. But you do have my sympathy. Sleep deprivation is horrible.

Key for us was buying a baby monitor with a video. So you didn't have to immediately rush in when they wake?

Oh and welcome to MN

I used controlled crying from about 10 months when I was sure my LOI was not waking up for a feed. The problem is that if they're hungry controlled crying won't work. Have you tried a dream feed about 10ish before he wakes for the 10.30 feed? We did this as a bottle feed and it seemed to help. It also meant husband could do it while I slept then I did the 4am one. My DD had the same pattern at about the same time, but was sleeping through by 10 months.

I found this website useful as it explained about sleep patterns and why she was waking. Warning though it talks a lot about pure cry it out as a method, which I wouldn't use at all. I reckon if they haven't gone to sleep after 2 check ins (after 5 and 10 mins crying) they won't! www.troublesometots.com/

Also, how is he eating during the day? Over the next few months you'll be able to increase solids so he'll have a nice full tummy going to bed. I reckon that this is what really made the difference and the sleep training methods I used just helped helped her get to/back to sleep if she woke up. If something is wrong when they wake up they won't go back to sleep until it's sorted - teething and a cough for us at the moment and she is refusing medicine!

PS. When you get your second night sleep in a row it is the best feeling ever. Not worth the lack of sleep but something to look forward to!

Is he still in your room?
My older 2 were like that at 7m.It's a difficult time as they are adjusting to weaning and are often teething /have colds as well.
I kept them in my room as with bf so often I thought it would be even worse if I was in and out all night.

As soon as I moved them out though,the sleep improved.

By 8m the sleep was much better and both slept through

Same here - out the bedroom made a massive difference to all of us as we didn't wake each other. They also won't be able to smell the milk so it could be a double bonus!

Waking to feed at night is still pretty normal at 7 months, I think. I'd hang on in there and it will get better with time. If you're struggling with sleep deprivation, would you consider co-sleeping? It saved me, you barely have to wake to feed.

Lots of carbs before bedtime and sending in your DH / DP to resettle worked for me.
Wearing him out properly during the day helps too.
Personally I'd only be expecting one overnight waking at that age either for a dream feed before midnight or in the wee hours but that's way too much. You must be on your knees. Is he teething?

As a breastfeeding mother myself, I think 7 months old is still very young and I would expect them to wake at night to feed still at least until they're 1. You can't force weaning on a child that age either, they're only just starting! And their main nutrition remains milk until 1 so again I don't think it sounds abnormal at all. It does get better but before one I still think you shouldn't expect too much. It will happen gradually. My DD only started sleeping through the night at 19 months and before that she woke up once around 2am for a few months.

oscar it may be way too much, but research says it is normal.

DS used to wake anything between 2-5 time every night his record is 9 times in 6 hours, and wanted a few oz every time he woke, the only thing that worked was going cold turkey with the night feeds, DP took 3 days off work and went in to give him water ever time he woke up after 3 nights (of hell) he was sleeping better. I will warn though the first time I tried it at 9mo just watering down feeds it didn't work next time at 11mo it worked just water, though he still wakes once a night maybe 3 or 4 nights a week. It's defo worth a try life got so much better all round once DS slept.

Google night weaning there is loads about it, it's also best if dad (or whoever doesn't normally do feeds) does it it's easier to make the change that way especially as you breastfeed it's a little unfair to smell the yummy warm milk but only be allowed the bloody water IMO :)

I could have written this post a couple of weeks ago. Moving dd into her own room recently helped her drop one or two of the middle of the night feeds. She still thinks 5am is wake up and play time though.. sigh.

Hi, I had exactly the same problem last year with dd. Some say its normal and maybe it is but I was blacking out from tiredness and becoming unable to cope. After speaking to a great Hv I waited til she wasn't teething or ill and just stopped feeding her in the night... she was nearly 8 mths at this stage. I sat with her and cuddled if really upset. I didn't want to do cc or a specific technique but tried to comfort as best I could... DH and I took turns and it was horrible and took 3 hours.

However, she slept through from the next night (til she started teething again!) And things really improved. Once I did it, it was obvious that she didn't need the milk and it was just habit.

Hope you get it sorted, its so exhausting! X

My DD2 woke for a feed at 11.30 and 2.30 like clockwork. She was hungry - would take both sides in 15 minutes flat, really guzzling, and go straight back down. If your LO is taking a full feed I really wouldn't try stopping night feeds as they're clearly still necessary. If your LO is a slow feeder I really do feel your pain, but it just isn't time to stop yet. I know people still say night feeds aren't necessary after 6 months, but that's nonsense.

I night weaned when DD2 started sucking until the milk let down and then fell asleep without taking a proper feed - that was when she was ready. She was 11 months.

Hi jilted. I agree, it's normal. I didn't say that it's not normal but just that imo, it's too much/undesirable and the OP must be pretty shattered after 7 months.

I personally think that at 7 months old, 3 dreamfeeds should be unneccessary - not because the OP's child doesn't need the food, but that the nutritional intake should mostly take place during the day. I still dreamfeed my own DD2 at 7 months around 11pm. Never managed a pre-midnight dreamfeed with DD1 so hers was around 3-4 which I found particularly crippling.

My experience was the same as Yorkshires and my DD1 just made up for her nutrition during the daylight hours. I'm debating when to drop the 11pm dreamfeed with DD2 but she is a bottle refusnik and I am back at work so I want to make sure she is hydrated and getting sufficient BM nutritionally so I doubt it will be any time soon.

I found with DD1 who liked to wake for a snack and complain voiciferously if it wasn't immediately forthcoming never one to turn down food, only looking back at photos of my pfb now do I see how chubby she was and I was worrying unneccessarily that I spent my mat leave in a miserable fog of sleep deprivedness. The OP with a bit more sleep will probably experience a much nicer time with her child and her child will be no worse off for an extra milk feed during the day that doesn't occur in the wee hours.

I don't want to start a row about what's best, just stating a personal opinion, mildly and reasonably I hope...

OP - hope things improves for you. The other thing I found with DD1 was when she started to have lots of activities during the day - playgroups etc, rather than being taken for long walks with me that she started to sleep better. Having other children around seems to exhaust them

Yeah, wasn't looking for a row either and all of the things like playgroups are great suggestions. Just think that sometimes on these boards the poster can be left feeling that everyone else has a baby who sleeps through and its simply not the case, it is important to remember what is normal.

I too think that the OP will probably feel better for some more sleep, and that's why I made the suggestions I did

No helpful suggestions really but just wanted to say there are many babies still doing what yours is at night. My dc3 was almost exactly like your baby at the same age. She came after 2 dcs who slept 12 hours at 6 months old so you can imagine how I felt! It was an exhausting time, but I just went with it and hoped she would start to go longer, which she did as she approached 1 year old. At 12 months she was waking once only, which I could cope with, and soon after that not at all. I didn't do anything, it just happened.

I think its normal for your LO to wake and eat at those times - healthy, normal, tiring for us parents though! - I personally never even tried to change night waking as I figured my DS just woke whenever he needed to, and me trying to change it would be for my convenience and not optimising his schedule. If I left him for a little bit to self settle he would just cry his head off as he was hungry!-I think I only tried that a couple of times and it was way easier to just give him his milk quick (-; I'd stick with it if I were you - he will settle down pretty quickly into fewer night feeds and this tiredness will not last forever!

Also your LO has a better bedtime than ours did at that age - when 7months my DS was going to sleep anytime between 7:30 - 10! - although he's found a nice natural rhythm now with a fairly early regular bedtime and waking up 0-1 times a night so it does change for the better pretty quickly.

Huge thanks for all your comments - I'm sorry I haven't replied sooner as we've been staying with family for a few days. Little'un's sleeping has been even worse as he's been in the same room as us (he has been in his own room since 6 months old), and we're finding that feeding doesn't seem to always soothe him. It seems that he does suffer from gas overnight which seems to make him uncomfortable - lots of lifting his legs up and crying, even when asleep. Once he's trumped, he settles better. I've been giving infacol before every solid food (he's eating well - we're doing a mix of baby-led weaning and some spooning of gloopy food) which does help - any other tips? I think I've been using feeding overnight as a way of comforting. He has dropped some BFs during the day (currently he's on 3 solid meals and 4 BFs during the day) and I suspect he doesn't need the BFs overnight but is comfort feeding.
I will persevere as I don't want to change things for my convenience, but a little more sleep would be very welcome!
Thanks!

Has he always been windy or is it just since weaning? Have you tried baby massage before bed and wearing in a sling for a bit in the day? The sling can help to get the wind up. Has Lo been checked for tongue tie too? It could be an issue, especially with the wind. If you think that solids might be contributing to the wind, have a read of this.

I'd also talk to a BFC about the wind at night and see what see suggests. You could contact your local le Leche league or call one of the bfing helplines. Have you got the numbers?

Hi - he has always been windy, but especially so when just starting weaning (we started at 5 and a half months as he had reflux). This had settled down, but recently has been noticeable again overnight. He burps a lot during the day too! He hasn't been checked for tongue tie, so I will ask about that, and contact a BFing helpline - I've got the NCT number. Is there one you would recommend? Thanks!

I'd definitely get him checked for tongue tie then. It might also be worth googling pictures of upper lip tie and see if that could be an issue too.

I've used the nct helpline when DS started biting at around 7 months. The suggestions were fab. I've also used the National Bfing Helpline which was great too. The numbers are here.

It might be worth seeing if there is a la Leche league group in your area too. They should be able to observe a whole feed and check for tongur tie and upper lip tie.

Hi. This might sound daft but have you just tried taking him off the boob a bit early? I started doing this a few weeks ago as my 5 month old DS was having a big feed in the night and wasn't hungry at all in the morning. In the night I would let him feed a bit then unlatch him. If he cried I would put him back on, if not I would pop him straight back in his cot and walk out. He muttered a bit (not proper crying) then went back to sleep.

This went on a bit, but he gradually started taking less in the night, then one night he woke, grizzled for a few mins and then went back to sleep. Since then I haven't really fed him in the night. It wasn't very scientific, and he still wakes up sometimes, but he also sleeps through on some nights and definitely isn't missing out on any of his nutritional needs.