Feel like I've not bonded with DS2. I NEED TO FIX THIS. HELP PLEASE.

[SecretCodesAndShame]

Long story short. Ds1 is 5 and I bonded with him right away despite the fact that he was a difficult cry-y baby, I felt strongly connected to him, carried him in a sling, basicially I was in love with him and still feel like he is my best buddy. I cuddle him and he just melts into me. I feel like I'd die without him.

DS2 is 14 months and also whiney and clingy but I just don't feel like I want to be attached to him. I do it because I have to. When he cries, I comfort him more to shut him up than because I feel love for him. That's bad isn't it? I know it's not right. I often think 'what if we'd never had him' how much easier things would be. I need to stop this now. I am so worried I will do him psychological damage in the long run if I don't get to the bottom if it.

I am having counselling but struggle to really do anything other than cry on the poor lady. I feel full of sadness and regret at how difficult things are. DS2 is beautiful, healthy, I should be so in love with him but it all feels fake. When he whines and cries I am screaming inside. I resent him for making DS1's life less than perfect which is pathetic I know.

I want him to be happy. I want to love him. I cuddle him. I kiss him and hold him a lot but the times when he's off entertaining himself I just want to run away and be in a different room from him. I can not do this to him any more. I grew up in a very unstable home. I wasn't hurt or abused as such but I always felt dispensible, never felt valued or safe. I can not do this to him. I don't want him to end up like me. He's just so beautiful but I keep thinking of all the poor people who can't have children and I feel so guilty and have fleeting thoughts of putting him up for adoption. We'd never do this by the way, even if sometimes it might be better for him :( DH is very attached to DS2, DS2 seems to pick up on this and is very possessive of DH and cries whenever he leaves his side to go to work which makes me think he's picking up on my feelings. Please help me love my son the way he deserves.

I've taken Citalopram on and off for years for both PND and 'bog standard' depression & found it helpful and quite fast to take effect so if it's made no difference after 7 months it might be worth asking to try something else if they suggest simply upping the dose.

Re therapy - I'm no expert on types or appropriateness, but personally I found CBT useful for dealing with certain issues. It was a weird experience though - at the time it felt like the therapist was doing nothing and I couldn't see the point in it, but when my issue raised it's head.several months later I realised it didn't actually bother me any more. I think by doing 'nothing' the therapist actually put my brain into a gear where it could process things for itself.

If that's how it usually works then as tiktok says you may need something different or something that would work alongside the cbt to progress things in a way that suits you best.

That's what I thought tiktok . I think she's at a bit of a loss as to what to do with me :-(

I am hoping my GP will be of more help and perhaps point me in the right direction. I am fearful they'll just put it down to depression and not listen to what I am saying. I am damaging my child. They need to take this seriously.

I need to get help for his sake. I can not just keep going through the motions but not feeling anything for him. It's not fair on either of our children really.

Thank you to everyone who has posted. Not one nasty comment and I was so sure I'd be hated and flamed. I can not thank you enough for your understanding.

I have been researching infant mental health and attachment theory and weirdly he is showing all the signs of being 'securely attached' which is a big relief. There is hope we could all come out of this OK. The thought that I could be harming him is too much to bear. I don't wish any harm on him at all. I just want him to be happy and for us all to move on as a family.

I have really made an effort with DS2 today. DH came home early and is gardening with DS1 while me and DS2 have been playing and singing. I'd love to say I've enjoyed it but it hasn't come naturally at all. I feel like hes looking at me thinking 'FAKER!' but I know this isn't going to come easily or instantly but I can not give up. That's not an option here.

Hope you get some good help, Secret. Your baby may well be securely attached - he has a lot of things going for him! Keep reading about attachment - it's a complex and fascinating phenomenon. Babies can be very resilient when they have a mother who does not feel close to her baby but knows how to do many of the things she'd be doing if she was. That's highly protective (and sounds like you!)

When there is another close figure in the set up - prob your DH, but it can be a grandparent or even a child carer - who is bonded, then this, too, bolsters resiliance.

You also know, I'm sure, your baby does not think 'Faker'. He's not able to - he doesn't have the cognition to see through anything. He's just having a lovely time :)

That's reassuring tiktok thank you. I think obviously the fact that he is very securely attached to DH and even DS1 is positive. I think he is attached to me in a way. He cries when I leave or try to hand him to someone he isn't sure of. He crawls to me when he's upset and knows I will pick him up. He knows I come when he's hurt himself. He's never been left to cry for hours or left alone or hungry. He's never been hit or hurt by any of us. His basic needs are always met but it's something inside me that isn't right. I hope he doesn't see me as a faker but of course that's how I feel and stupidly when he looks at me with his innocent little face, his big gorgeous wise eyes looking up at me, I imagine him to be thinking the same. Of course he's not capable of that but I need to keep reminding myself of that!

Have a think about anti depressants - I found citalopram was making me very emotionless - so it suppressed the depression, but also I found it impossible to find things humorous (I couldn't laugh, although I found things funny I stopped being able to express it).

I have DCs similar ages to yours, and a long history of depression.

It sounds like you're being very hard on yourself! You say you haven't bonded with him but it's clear from what you write that you're incredibly concerned about his welfare. I am sure you will all be fine, but do seek out some extra support.

It is really tough getting to grips with being a mum of 2, after being able to devote yourself just to one dc. For me it's kind of gone the other way to you- my youngest is quite chilled out but my oldest can be incredibly demanding (big strops, constant demands to play elaborate games) so as much as I love her I have this guilty feeling of enjoying it more when it's just me and the baby.

Best of luck, I hope you're feeling better about things soon.

I had been told a few times that you think you can't love your second as much as the first, the he arrives and you just do. Well, wasn't like that for me, dc1, instant bonding, dc2, i asked the hv if it was normal that i didn't want to pick him up, i couldn't understand why people wanted to come see him. I had pnd and ptsd. Only once that resolved could my heart start to let him in.
It did help spending time alone with him to get to know him.. I was more worried that dc1 would feel left out.. It also helped to realise that i had been v lucky to have a positive experience the first time, but just because things were different, didn't make it my fault. Mabe some people can love their kids the same way. I couldn't. I found being split between them so hard. Now they play together, it is easier. So just be very kind to yourself anf take it slow.

You might have to re-evaluate your relationship with your DS1 too, OP. From what you write, it looks way too rosy and perfect to be real. Sure, he is great and you love him, but it no child can live with the pressure of being perfect all the time, and it's not healthy. You're not doing him any favours in the long run either. Being the favoured child may lead to insecurity and ruin his relationship with his brother.

Is it possible that you've constructed this perfect world with DS1 to address your own needs and to compensate for your own childhood?

Secrets, I haven't been in your position but I have had a small baby and I have also had therapy for family issues - a few things jump out for me...

Firstly, you will get there, you really will - you are on the path to resolving this - because you recognise that there is a problem, you can see and understand that it is linked directly to your own childhood experiences - and most importantly, you want to change. Many, many people have problems with relationships, family or otherwise, but are not as advanced in self knowledge as you are.

YOu say that you think part of the problem arises from your desire to create a 'perfect' family life for DS1 - I wonder if your family dynamic as a child means that you associate having siblings with trauma/ distress - your own situation meant that you were never 'special' in your family, so you want to make sure DS1 is completely 'special'. You are frightened that if you take your attention away from him, he will become 'lost' and abandoned like you were - but of course, you know in your rational mind that isn't true.

The majority of people benefit from having a sibling and sharing their parents love - they gain the love of a sibling - and your older son will not be damaged by sharing the attention he has had so far -= but these are really issues to talk through with your therapist - and if you can't/ aren't doing that, is it possible to find a new one? I agree with the others about being wary of CBT - it's about tackling negative thought patterns, not delving into the past. it might help - but you need to do deep psychoanalytical/humanistic therapy - I think with your level of distress you also need it weekly.

Can you afford to pay privately? IF not, as someone above said, there are people who are experts in child-mother bonding, who will be specifically trained to help you. Find the best ones and try to get reffered.

one last thing - I also think it's possible that because of your very negative feelings about yourself/ your childhood, you are over-worrying about normal reactions to bringing up a baby - out of fear that it means something more serious. Babies are bloody hard work! and having two is double hard - it is NORMAL to feel anger/ frustration at sharing your lvoe with a second - and normal to find babies hard and boring a lot of the time.

get the right help and you will find your way out of this.

Mmm interesting Vess I see your point but in no way to I see DS1 as being 'perfect' and I have never written that! He has moods and silliness, giddiness and cheekiness like every other 5 year old believe me! He is under no pressure to be perfect and that is never something I expect from him but the bond I have with him, that connection is there and solid. Yes sometimes he irritates me, I tell him off, we wind each other up but beneath all that, the love and the ability I have to cope with whatever he throws at me is unshakable. I think what I'm trying to say is that I feel I can confidently parent him regardless of his behaviour because I know him. I know how to make him happy. I know when there is something bothering him. I know when he's lying. I know when he's tired etc etc. I can not always fix it but we have a relationship that means he knows he can come to me and off load. So whilst I dont think HE is perfect, our relationship and love is real and easy.

It's not like that with DS2 yet. It's awkward. I feel on edge. when he cries I cant always tell why. I don't feel I can confidently parent him so I feel overwhelmed and scared even I am embarrassed when he cries in public because I feel it must be blaringly obvious that I don't know what the hell I'm doing.. I worry about him constantly because I don't know what his triggers are. I don't know him or how he feels or thinks because he can't tell me iyswim? He is almost like a stranger to me which muct sound terrible to any normal good mothers reading this.

I also know that this favouritism is not good for them both vess that is something I have previously written about that I feel I am damaging their brotherly relationship which destroys me. I of course have never said 'DS1 you're my favourite!' but like you say it's going to impact on them inevitably. I feel at the age of 5, he must know that I do try and do all the activities with him and leave DH with DS2. DH is also suffering for it because he has little time with DS1. Another reason why I am going to get this sorted. One way or another. I have to. I can not let things carry on the way they have been for the past 14 months because it is damaging to everyone I love. I feel like I'm destroying my family and it's all my fault. I just want everyone to be happy and secure.

Today I suggested that DH took DS1 on a bike ride which they both loved and I took DS2 to the park to go on the baby swings and crawl about in the grass. He seemed to have a good time. At one point a toddler came up to him on a scooter and unsettled him a bit. He didn't cry but he immediately crawled back to me and clung to me til he was confident again. It felt nice that despite all my doubt and negative feelings, he still finds me comforting in some way. When he crawled off to look at the flowers, he looked back at me and I saw his face light up at what he was seeing and he wanted me to share it. I did feel a small glimmer of warmth. This little boy who just wanted his mummy to look at the daisies with him was mine and I did feel it. It just seems like we have such a long way to go. I can not fail him.

I can't say too in-depth as I've a bit of but your original op is very like one of mine on one of the pnd sites. Differences are that my dd is 7 mo and my gp didn't take me seriously when I visited him (I've made another appointment with a different one)

You say that maybe you have looked back on your ds1's childhood through rose tinted glasses? That is probably true. I love my ds to bits (it's dd I struggle with) and I can't for the life of me really remember the bad bits. I know he had colic at the start and it was hard but when I mention he didn't really throw tantrums, my mum laughed as she remembered otherwise and said that biology is great about making you forget the bad stuff so you have another kid. I did have a hard pregnancy though and even through the hard bits after birth I appreciated that both of us were still alive.

Dd I sailed through preg with no problems yet I feel nothing, like going through the notions and putting on a pretence. I would never want anything to happen to her and I get the odd few seconds of love but it's not the same as with ds and makes me feel bad. I miss just ds and I.

You aren't alone in the way that you feel. I'm very lucky in that my mum had a hard time with some of us and she can be a bit of sounding board and doesn't look down on me for the way I feel.

Sorry bit of a tipsy blether.

Thank you waterrat. A lot of your post made me nod in agreement actually. Whilst I don't dislike my siblings, I actually adore them now I'm an adult, I can see how as a child I was the youngest and I did feel overlooked because of them but then they feel they were over looked too (which they were). Bottom line is, none of us got the love or care we needed. Before our mum died, I felt she was overwhelmed with us all, understandably but instead of getting help she put a brave face on it, kept the house immaculate and pretty much ignored us in favour of playing the perfect housewife. After my mother died, we were often left in squalour. We were the scruffy unkept kids who had mouldy bread in our pack ups, greasy hair and stains on our school uniforms. Our feelings and emotions, our grief for our mother was never really taken into consideration. My father was violent and obviously grieving for my mum in his own way, was massively stressed looking after the four of us with no support. I often think without my siblings I would have possibly been a whole lot more miserable actually but again maybe my parent wouldn't have been so quick to lump us all in together and perhaps our needs may have been catered for if they had just had one, it's a difficult thing to think about really because there is no answer. But absolutely, what you say about me being scared to take attention away from DS1 rings true. I am terrified of becoming my father. Not having the time or will to find out how his day has been. How he feels about certain things. What's been the best bit of the day and the worst bit etc. We never got asked anything like that. I love knowing DS1 and I do feel like my parents never knew us.

Also about over reacting to the baby. Hugely true. I KNOW I do this. I pick up on his mood so if he's grumpy (which he is often) I feel like it's me who's failing. I'm crap and that's why he cries. I can't ignore it or deal with it like normal mums. I become desperate to just make it stop!!! When I can't it only adds to feeling of failure. Also my friends who simply LOVE babies and never find theirs annoying, they coo and nuzzle into them thinking it's amazing. I have never felt that which adds yet more guilt and feelings of me being crap.

I am going to look into private therapy. I am not sure if it's something we can afford but I will certainly see.

Wow I ramble on and on. Sorry but thank you to everyone for still taking the time to read and post.

Ballroomblitz Thank you for sharing your story. It's so hard to admit this isn't it? I would't have believe I could ever have felt this way. I think in many ways we do forget the bad bits like you say, also we have perspective and DS1 being so much older and more reasonable now, I can easily see that the bad bits were totally worth it. With babies you don't have that perspective or knowledge do you?! So if you're struggling, it feels like it'll always be this way because it seems impossible to me to see DS2 as anything other than a difficult baby at the moment.

We can get through it and we obviously aren't alone! It's great also that you have your mother to confide in. I hope you get the help and support you need. xxx

He is almost like a stranger to me

So if you're struggling, it feels like it'll always be this way because it seems impossible to me to see DS2 as anything other than a difficult baby at the moment.

I felt like that. Honestly with the right therapist you can get through this.

It sounds, understandably from what you went through as a child, that you are worried about taking your eye off the ball with ds1 and see ds2 as a (dangerous?) distraction. But what happened to you was a massive deal, struggling mother who did not seek help (let's face it, it was much harder to years ago) and then bereavement. Having a sibling is a life changing event but nowhere near as enormous and traumatic as what happened to you. Hopefully if you can work through your childhood, it'll get easier.

Your day in the park sounds lovely, OP. Keep going!
Whatever your thoughts and feelings are, you certainly are doing the right thing.

Just reading this and feeling for you hugely. Something popped out at me, you said there's something about his cry that sets you on edge. My dd (younger at 5 months, my second child, ds is 3.5) has reflux and her pain/reflux cry drills through me, I just want it to stop. Is it possible that he's whiney and clingy because he's not physically comfortable for some reason? I'm definitely not saying you've missed anything because you feel detached, just wondering whether you find the cry hard because it's a hard cry? Could a trip to an osteopath be worth a thought?

And FWIW you sound like you're doing a good job, not least because you're still trying. Could you do something like swimming where you're physically close during an activity (suspect a bit wriggly for massage now!).

And as a final, disjointed thought: my Granny said to me years ago when I was very sad, find one thing every day that makes you smile. Why not try that? One thing every day about him/something you've done with him that's made you smile. Concentrate on that as you sum up the day. Once you start looking you'll find more. Maybe it'll be something about them together, that's ok. Maybe note them down and start to see the smiles adding up? At the very least then in later years he might happen across the book and know that you saw all the good bits?

Thank you vess I am trying. It's nit coming naturally yet but I am trying. I've always spent time with DS2, I've always held him and cuddled him but I am really making an effort to see little glimmers of my son and studying his little mannerisms and likes and dislikes. I need to get to know him.

purplething YES! That's it. I have invested so much time and effort into DS1 to never let him down that I do feel DS2 is a dangerous *distraction. I feel gulty everytime I cuddle DS2 because for one thing it feels awkward and fake and also because he's taking my eye off DS1. DS1 incidentally does not care and has never shown an ounce of jealousy or resentment towards his brother, which again makes me feel inhuman! If a 5 year old can adjust so well, why can't I???

mspickle I often wondered if there was something troubling him but we have tried just about everything going including cranial osteopathy and referals to paediatricians at the hospital. He is dairy free due to consultant suspecting milk allergy but I am no convinced, we haven't seen any improvement in his mood. He's not inconsolable all day, he's nnot shreiking and sobbing, just generally whingy and niggles and grizzles, again not constantly. A lot of the time we are out and he's exploring he can be quite happy amd charming. He's developing well, pointing, saying odd words so I just don't know what the hell is wrong with him= if anything! Tha't s a lovely idea about the noting down the things that have made me smile about him. I will definitely do that. Thank you.

I would hazard a guess that it is because ds1 has had a lovely secure childhood so the arrival of another child is not a negative thing. You are an adult with baggage, so it's not so easy for you. Sounds like you are working really hard though.

Hi, I understand your feelings completely. I have a 3yr old and a twenty month old. As soon as DS2 was born, I was overwhelmed with the tiredness and how hard it was dealing with two children that were still so young. I didn't get much help from my DP and so I think that added to my tiredness and thus, made my feelings toward DS2 even worse. I experienced all of the feelings that you described and I too felt awful for feeling that way. However, once DS1 began going to nursery it gave me some free time with DS2 and eventually, when DS2 was about fifteen months old and started to show his personality, my feelings toward him grew. I would now say that I love him just as much as DS1 and I hope our relationship is now back on track and he'll be none the wiser of my initial feelings. I think your feelings toward your second child will get better and eventually, like me you'll begin to love him just as much as your other son. I think the sheer tiredness and the massive adjustment to dealing with two children just clouds how we feel. It's just hanging on in there in the meantime until those better feelings start to grow and I wish you the best of luck and really do believe if you can just see it through this tough time, as he grows and develops his personality your feelings will soon improve.

sounds like Pnd to me .. I had it with ds1 and I'm Pg with 2nd now and I worry about the exact same thing !

ds1 I had so much love for he changed me as a person (not that I was a bad person to begin with I am just better now ) but I worry I just wont feel the same about dc2 I doesn't seem possible.

anti depressants may help also some well deserved alone time gym ,swim , shop (for yourself not the children ) spa. something really self indulgent I found really helped as I new I needed and deserved it and Dp encouraged and found money for beauty treatments etc although we don't have that much to spare ! it helped massively .

Even take a holiday with friends away from the children if you can manage it . I couldn't stretch to this myself but I saw it on Stacy Solomon programme about PND if you can find the programme its worth watching because it describes exactly what you describe.

I find taking yourself out of the situation is always a good idea to see clearly away from both children will help you to miss them , hopefully u will see how much u miss ds2 . and spending time with each child alone . embrace there differences rather than trying to compare them..

hope this helps and good luck i'm sure you will come through this and be proud of you and your children