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Original poster

DD just thrown dinner across room !

30 replies

Esmummy · 16/05/2006 18:18

DD (22 months old) has just picked up handfulls of her pasta and thrown it across the front room. I asked her to pick it up god knows how many times to no avail, so then i tried the good girl route "be a good girl and pick it up for mummy", just to get feet stamped and "no". Then i tried the naughty girl route "you are a naughty girl .... if you don't pick up that pasta".
She picked up half of it when i turned the TV off and told her it wasn't going back on until she had picked it all up but then she sat on the floor and wouldn't budge.
In the end i sat her on the sofa (i picked up the other half of the pasta and told her she had made mummy upset and she wouldn't have Story Makers on. She screamed for a few minutes then came over and said sorry mummy and gave me a kiss and cuddle.
This is the first time she has ever done this and to be honest I'm a bit shocked, I wasn't expecting her to just blatantly stand there and tell me no whilst stomping her feet. How can i make her do something if she refuses ?

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ComeOVeneer · 16/05/2006 18:21

Welcome to my world Esmummy. DD constantly says "no|" to me and it is driving me up the wall. No advice though, so I'll be watching this thread too.

Original poster
Esmummy · 16/05/2006 18:25

How old is DD ComeOVeneer ?
Am just amazed, she is not perfect by any stretch of the imagine but usually if i ask her to something she does it after a couple of time of asking her but she just rufused point blank.

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Original poster
Esmummy · 16/05/2006 18:35

Oh no ...... you all have perfect kids who don't do things like this :(

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Blu · 16/05/2006 18:41

It's teatime, Esmummy - everyone's probably dealling with their own pasta-aftermath.

Sounds like your dd is entering the terrible twos and flexing her muscles.

I have no idea whether i did it right, but as soon as DS entered this phase, i just stopped engaging in fights - partly because I didn't want him to know how much determination and endurance he had if he put his mind to it.

If she does it again, you could try saying 'don't throw the pasta, or I will take your dish away'. And the minute she does it again, take the dish away v calmly and then ignore her. (give her a sandwich about half an hour later, before she goes to bed - this isn't about witholding food, it's just about not enabling her to continue with bad behaviour, OR to engage in a fantastically entertaining power struggle with her Mum!).

Blu · 16/05/2006 18:43

So, it's not about making her do something if she refuses, it's about not engaging with her at all if she doesn't co-operate, and taking away the means for her to repeat the bad behaviour. I'm probably not explaining it very well, but it's about a difference of approach. Don't give in, but neutralise the battle rather then enter it. Take the wind out of her sails.

hunkermunker · 16/05/2006 18:45

Agree with Blu - don't turn it into a fight. She's a bit young for "if you don't, then this will happen" stuff too, IME (I know this is debatable, but DS1 definitely doesn't get this yet and he's a bit older than your DD).

I wouldn't do "good girl/naughty girl" stuff either I'm afraid - I talk about behaviour being naughty, not DS1 being naughty.

It's REALLY hard work, but the more calm you stay, the better. On days when I shout, everything seems worse Blush

fruitful · 16/05/2006 18:48

She sounds normal to me! Welcome to all our worlds!

You can't make her do things if she choose not to, ultimately. But you can teach her that there will be consequences if she chooses not to do what you ask.

e.g. that was a naughty thing to do, you mustn't throw food. If you throw food again I will take your food away. Now I want you to pick up the food. If you don't, xxx will happen. One .... two ... three ...

Deciding on xxx for a 22-mth-old is the hard part. Turning the tv off sounds like a good plan.

But you have to make sure you do what you've said you'll do or she'll know not to believe you next time!

hunkermunker · 16/05/2006 18:49

Oh, and I very rarely say the word naughty either because the one time I did, DS1 picked up on it immediately and went round saying "naught, naught, naught" and it sounded like I was always telling him off...!

Pick your battles. If you start something with a toddler, be very sure you can finish it - ie if you're not really that fussed about it, don't say no in the first place.

FrayedKnot · 16/05/2006 18:50

When DS (2.2) gets into defiant mode, I fidn it better to ignore his behaviour than make a big thing of it, oterhwise it turns into a battle of wills.

If DS threw his food - he never has, but he has tipped it over the table a few times - the food gets taken away. I tell him off, obviously, then remove the food, clean him up and get him down. Usually he has a strop at this but I just ignore it and carry on with soemthing mundane like washing up.

I do also find that keeping it short ansd sweet is better because soemtimes I think I get cross and start ranting on and DS doesn;t really understand exactly what is expected of him.

fruitful · 16/05/2006 18:50

Took too long to write that. I agree about avoiding the battle in the first place if at all possible.

But I also think you can't start young with "actions have consequences". Ds is 15 months and he knows if he bangs the remote control on the table, it gets taken away, but if he plays gently he can keep it. I know he knows, because he looks at me (sideways), pauses, then bangs it, and then grabs it and crawls away from me as fast as he can...

fruitful · 16/05/2006 18:51

can start young!

hunkermunker · 16/05/2006 18:52

Oh, DS1 knows that actions have consequences - you're right they're not too young for that - I just meant the debate about it before anything's happened.

Original poster
Esmummy · 16/05/2006 18:52

Yeah was kind of thinking the good girl/bad girl route wasn't a good idea Hunker. She certainly doesn't get the "if you don't do this", was just completley stuck with what to say to be honest.
Blu that sounds like a good idea, I certainly don't want a battle like that on my hands on a regular occurance. I will definitely try telling her once and then removing the "problem" as no doubt this will happen over more than just food if it is the terrible two's.
My nieces has just turned 3 and she has had terrible two's for what seems like an age, most of which is aimed at DD, "I don't like you" "your ugly" type of thing, just terrified if i don't deal with DD in the right way from the off she will end up like DN.
Thanks for your suggestions.

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Twiglett · 16/05/2006 18:53

She's nearly 2 .. I think you're expecting too much TBH

Say no .. when she throws pasta .. put her on the naughty step (or whatever) .. bring her back ask her to pick up some pasta ... as much as she picks up is great .. even one piece ... say thank you / good girl

I don't think a 2 year old should be expected to pick up every single piece .. a 4 or 5 year old maybe ..

Original poster
Esmummy · 16/05/2006 18:55

Fruitful, DD does the looking out of the corner of her eye thing too. She knows she shouldn't be doing something (like dipping her toothbrush in Granddad's wine a few days ago) but she seems to think if she looks out the corner of her eye in a devilish way i wont do anything about it.

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Original poster
Esmummy · 16/05/2006 18:57

Really twiglett, not saying you are wrong at all, am interested in all opinions. Always thought that by doing that I would be 'giving in' and DD would think she had won. My mum refers to it as seeing how fas she can push the boundaries.

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Original poster
Esmummy · 16/05/2006 18:58

That made it sounds like i want a battle which i don't, just couldn't think of another way of wording what i meant.

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hunkermunker · 16/05/2006 19:00

She's not even two though. I think people expect far too much of very young children. I've heard people having entire drawn-out conversations about not getting any pudding if they don't eat their whole dinner with 17mo babies, fgs.

Not saying that I don't expect good behaviour of DS1 (who is remarkably well-behaved, usually...!) - but I don't think that constantly nittering at children or being "on them" for everything helps anyone really.

Original poster
Esmummy · 16/05/2006 19:01

Bathing DD now. Will be back soon to see what everyone else thinks

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hunkermunker · 16/05/2006 19:02

Read that as "beating DD" and thought cor, that's a bit ott for not picking up a bit of pasta Grin

Sorry, Esmummy, wasn't paying attention and don't think you're a daughter-beater Grin

Blu · 16/05/2006 19:03

I do agree that a certain amount of pasta-disaster is completely normal at this age.

Twiglett · 16/05/2006 19:04

No .. the way I see it

the negative behaviour you want to stop is throwing pasta

hence throwing pasta results in a sharp NO and admonishment such as naughty step for 2 minutes .. or removal of food for 2 minutes

once No and 'punishment' for negative behaviour then its all over and done with

you are however left with the consequences of negative behaviour ie the pasta on the floor

its up to you how you deal with consequences .. you could do it yourself / not look at her whilst you do it

or

you could ask her to help you tidy it up

tidying up the pasta is a good thing hence gets approval from mummy

but a 2 year old shouldn't be made to tidy up everything IMO

that's how I see it

Original poster
Esmummy · 16/05/2006 19:12

No Hunker, its not got that bad yet Grin.

Ok so next time I will try the telling her once not to do it if she doesn't listen i will take it off of her. If she continues to do it i will start introducing a naughty step or something, she doesn't have a time out area at the minute.
DP is bathing DD now btw, I haven't left her up there unattended.

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hulababy · 16/05/2006 19:13

I agree with Twiglett and have used a smiliar system with DD in the past.

Say No to the bad behaviour
Remove her to naughty chair/step for 2 minutes (1 min approx per year of life)
In meantime quickly tidy up mess - do not look at her or comment during this time
If she offers to help let her and praise her lots for helping and onher current good behaviour
After time out session is up, ignoreit ever happened and start afresh.
If eating nicely, every so often comment on this - it is very easy to forget to comment on good behaviour and only draw attention to negative stuff

22 months is still very young. But by implementing a consistnet (do same thing every time there is bad behaviour) approach she will begin to get the idea.

bourneville · 16/05/2006 19:15

I agree with Twiglett.

But i admit that any messing around from dd at the dinner table has resulted in her meal being taken away completely - she doesn't get any more food later on. Hardly ever happens though because when I say "I will take your plate away if you do that again" she believes me and stops. Or actually, if i do end up taking it away dd is distraught and she has 1 more chance, there is no more messing around then! I know that sounds a little wishy washy (not carrying out the threat) but it seems to work for us. (btw dd is now 2.9)
She's never actually thrown her food but if she ever did i would definitely make her help tidy it up. I always try and use a consequence that matches the deed.

In terms of your general question of how do you make them do what you want them to, a sticker chart worked very well for me & dd, i used one for anything related to dressing (nappies, getting dressed, coat on etc) as it had become a real battleground at one point, and because they were things that simply HAD to be done (with everything else, as others have said, sometimes our expectations can be a bit high so i'm not so militant). I am v proud to say that we haven't used the sticker chart at all for a good few weeks now and dd is (usually) good as gold! :)

The most important thing i think is consistency and following through every time. dd believes me when i make any threat (or promise) and it helps with tons of situations.