Why are cruel parenting sites legal?

[Blu]

I have heard of Gary Ezzo before, and today discovered the horrific Michael Pearl. Pearl and his wife actually advocate beating children under the age of one with 'switches' from a tree, and describe horrendous incidences where they have beaten other peopel's children. He instructs parents to beat children relentlessly.

Since incitement to other kinds of violence is banned, and the beahviour this man admits to is presumably legally child abuse, why is it permissable that he openly encourages people to beat children. To beat babies? (he proudly describes beating an 11 month old on his bare leg with a stick).

I really, really want him arrested.

What I don't understand is how a Christian can justify using violence when Jesus preached to turn the other cheek, when he accepted crucifixion - a violent and torturous end to this life, even though he had the power to stop it.

Jesus was a pacificist, if all that I studied about his life is true.

Agree Ruty. Whenever you read biographies of victorians, they nearly always say "he was not the typical victorian pater familias, he was a loving and indulgent papa who would never have beaten his children at any time in their childhood".

I sometimes wonder if the people whose childhoods were featured in early twentieth century media were entirely representative of victorian families as a whole.

I would quite happily see amazon not sell anything which was an instructive manual (which this is) on any illegal child issue such as paedophilia or abuse. I bet if there was a 'How to sexually abuse your child' manual, amazon wouldn't stock it because there would be a massive public outcry from (hopefully) everyone. This is an incitement to violence - I can't see it in any other way.

Also remember, the only reason this book has been published is because they did it themselves.

This is a belief coupled with violence - not good and a difficult mindset to alter except with laws. Our society wants less violence and extremists and I hope that can be done without more control and big brother type methodologies

Does that mean if I wrote a book that I couldn't find a publisher for, Amazon automatically guarantees me a retail outlet?

Hmmm.

yes expat, and all his comments about people and children go against Pearl's teachings at a fundamental level. 'Suffer the little children to come unto me..' etc. Look at the Prodigal Son, a son that leaves home, goes off and does everything under the sun [i guess a modern day equivalent would be clubbing, girls, drugs] and then when he is totally wasted and has run out of money he returns home, eyes opened and crestfallen. And the father welcomes him with open arms, much to the chagrin of the older, 'good' brother. No mention of hitting the son into obedience and submission there. And too many other examples to count. Anyway, just trying to confirm that Pearl's teachings have as much to do with christianity as Mary Poppins has with the Khmer Rouge. If you see what I mean.

Agreed Expat, but in that era (and in many religions) children were seen as being less than human by most cultures- including ours. In India, Hindu children aren't supposed to have thir bodies or ashes (dependant on family caste) put into Mother Ganges, as they don't yet constitute fulla dults (NB disclaimer this is what I was taught at uni, probably mainly applies to village commuinites now, the cities thankfully are moving way beyond that).

yes Caligula. I am considering publishing a book entitled 'Eat your way Thin - the Woodland Fungi Diet' Lots of potential don't you think?

In it I shall advocate eating all the fungi you can find of any type, as they are all safe to eat of course.

Amazon are not custodians of all we hold dear - that is the job of elected governments. They are a commercial company just like Gap or Tesco and they have the wherewithal to stock a book, any book, and make profit - unlike traditional bookstores who either have to stock to a coimmercially succesful market, or know that they are not going to make a profit, but it's worth it for the support of minority interest.

The difference between these and H Potter is that H Potter is fiction, and is not a zealous 'how to do' manual with a step-by-step guide on the skills and equipment needed to cast real spells on people that you, in reality, expect to work.

We deal with degrees of acceptability all the time - very few decisions are base on an overall 'all or nothing' approach - and we deal with the consequences, for better, for worse.

I say this for discussion / debate, not to fight a corner - I actually have much agreement with NCQs point that the fact that Amazon sell EVERYTHING actually depletes the potential currency that a CHOICE to stock would have. And also that the main issues are in the questions that FrannyandZooey poses in her post of 8.20.

MP - good post.

foxinsocks there ARE books on Amazon about child abuse and how to best do it - as mentioned before.

Caligula - you have to have a book published and an ISBN before Amazon will add it to their databse, but as long as you have that (you could do it privately for 5K) you could probably get your book there. I've actually done this for a client in the last few years.

Ruty: Actually most of the fundamentalists in this country seem to be quite middle class - but will be educated in Bible colleges etc. I don't know about the States.

yes i know MP - sorry, where did i say otherwise?

oh i think that was to ks MP.

HC, if I didn't shop anywhere that they sold things I don't morally approve of, I would be a very hungry woman - there are no organic vegetarian co-operatives round here. I don't shop at Gap because I find the whole company revolting - not because they stock something I don't like. I was in Tesco's at the weekend as it happens Amazon has questionable business practices and pays poor wages as far as I know. I would think writing to them about that would not be a waste of time.

Being shouted at about dandelions by a small person so excuse disjointed thoughts :)

oh sorry Ruty yes that was to KS :)

AS child abuse and paedophilia are illegal, has anyone thought of reporting these books to the authorities, and of reporting Amazon too?

How about other parenting sites, do they know what Amazon are promoting?

Rhubarb there is a pro-paedophilia movement called the "childlove" movement - it has a lot of websites/publications. Has been going on for about 30 years.

MP
Having grown up for the most part in conservative Texas - excepting the liberal bastion of Austin - and then having lived in fairly liberal Denver - with ultra-conservative 'Focus on the Family' Colorado Springs just a jaunt down the highway, I'd venture to guess much of the fundamentalist Christian right in the States are middle-class, at least on that side of the Mississippi River.

mp, that first paedo book they don't stock anymore and the second one is one man's rantings about how he became one. I wouldn't say they were 'parenting manuals' like this one claims to be.

foxinsocks they don't stock it because they don't stock any books that are not sold in large quantities or out of print - but they recommend that you 'order it used'.

They are both pro-paedophile books by people who claim to be part of the "childlove" movement. I can find lots more if you like!

So how come the Police don't crack down on it? If it is so well known, why isn't it investigated like the Wonderland internet organisation was? I've reported the parenting book to US Customs as it is being imported over here.

I would assume it's not illegal to question the law, as long as there is no evidence you are acting on it