parenting war

[ct148]

Just looking for other peoples experiences really...
Has anyone else been in a relationship/marriage that has absolutely no problems whatsoever...until your DC came along? Only to find that as parents you disagree about absolutely everything parenting related? As in, you realise you are 100% at opposite sides of the parenting spectrum, so to speak.
My dh and I are that couple. And as a result our marriage is at rock bottom. What on earth do you do?
Never even stopped to consider it before we had our DS. Maybe you don't actually know what sort of a parent you'll be until you become one. Maybe a lot of it comes from how you were parented yourself.
Turns out I'm very attachment parenty if you want to put a label on it-bit of a hippy! Co-slept for good proportion of DS first year, seems like the most natural thing in the world to me and makes my life so much easier. Happy to co-sleep when DS needs to now at 18m, teething or poorly. Dh sees co-sleeping as insane, wrong, sure to make DS clingy bla bla bla. Breastfeeding: me, do it as long as poss, as long as mum amd baby want to. Him: when are you stopping breastfeeding, its weird etc etc etc. Childcare: me, I'd like to stay at home full time but I understand I do need to work PT, so in my absence I'd like DS to go to his nan and grandads. Him: he should go to nursery ASAP otherwise he'll never be able to interact with other children. Sleep training: admittedly DS is an awful sleeper so i have to do a kind of semi gradual withdrawal method when I need to, (works a treat until ill or teething), he tells me I should leave DS to CIO- and has told me this pretty much daily since the day we had DS. (he suggested this tonight for the millionth time, after asking if DS would be in with me tonight. Even tho DS hasn't been well and is on anti-biotics for inflamed eardrums!) then said I was being over protective when I explained that I would never use CIO, though I'm sure it probably works. And told him i especially wouldn't use it when I'm not 100% sure that DS is better yet! Told him I would never do something which I don't believe is right just to keep him happy.
Thoughts please, (even if you disagree) or similar experiences. Sorry for the rambling nature of all this, just sick of being nagged at.

Through chatting to friends there seems to be many couples who disagree on many aspects of bringing up their children. I have spent my time being too soft on mine as I believe their father is too hard on them.

You have to try to find a balance but it is hard. Chatting about it with other mums always helps me.

Good Luck

Maybe you could start agreeing to disagree on this? Even though it is tough and you really seem at polar opposites, your relationship has also other components that are probably quite compatible? keep doing what you think is best for the child, but also keep in mind that you are also a team?

You and DH - a team

Best option would be to travel back in time and have these discussions before having dc. As that's not really an option unless you know something i don't you do need to start finding more of a balance.

You're presenting your opposing views as mine = right and his = wrong and it sounds like he thinks similar (except the other way around).

Sounds to me like sleeping is the main issue - can you get your dh involved in putting your ds to bed? If he could get involved and see the gradual withdrawal method working first hand that might be better? You could state firmly you don't agree with CIO but would be open to other suggestions/forms of sleep training?

Re: childcare. Maybe if you present it as you'd like ds to go to his gp but think nursery would be good once he gets to 3 and gets free hours. Then you are not dismissing your dh's ideas out of hand and he might feel a bit more listened to.

Thanks for your replies.
I think before DS was born I felt like we would be a good team. But now I feel like I have had to 'fight him off' so to speak, pretty much everyday, so that I can follow my instincts and do what I believe is right for my son. So now we aren't a team at all. I'm just kind of the opinion that DS is healthy and happy, we have a lovely home, we/our families are all healthy etc etc, and I am happy with what we have, as in I realise how lucky I am right now and am happy. I don't know why he can't just be happy. he feels like he needs to nag or argue all the time about DS. Does it really matter if I go to bed early and co-sleep with DS on the occasion that he's poorly and I believe needs comfort? In the grand scheme of things is this such a massive deal that it should ruin our marriage? DS been poorly the past couple of weeks so is on anti-biotics, much better but not himself still. So after dh told me I should put DS in his cot and let him cio (he won't sleep on his own when poorly) DS woke up in the night (next to me) screaming his little heart out, so still obv in a bit of pain. I suppose what I'm trying to say is that I'm just trying to trust my instincts here and do what I believe is right, but dh won't seem to let me. Its all so and so said they did this...I don't care what somebody else does, DS isn't their child! sorry for the moan, don't know who I can talk to in RL- none of my friends have kids so don't really understand. X

Thanks dawn.
With regards to gradual withdrawal and the sleep issue surely dh must know it works because I've done it a few times since DS was 11 months (every time he gets ill or travels have to start from scratch). And I've said I'm happy to do it next wkend when hopefully DS will be better. But that's not soon enough. I do take your point about getting dh more involved with bedtimes though. Dh has never put DS to bed or EVER got up to him in the night when he's woken. So perhaps next wkend we could do gradual withdrawal between us, instead of it being just me, and then he'll feel more involved and hopefully see it working first hand. I'm just so confused as to how he can adore DS so much, yet be happy for me to upset him so much by letting him cio (it would be awful to say the least) when he isn't even very well! Everyone different I suppose.

You don't seem to value your dps views - you want so
Much for your child but an involved, happy dad is also hugely valuable. Does your dp get to spend lots of time w your son? I think if you let your dp make some decisions you may find it works out just fine. If you really not happy to then it sounds like you would prefer to parent on your own. I would think marriage counselling would help?

It's hard when you're the one with them all day, to then have someone else correcting you on what you think is right for your child, particularly when you are the one who is most likely to know what will and will not work for your ds. But it is also important that the other parent has their say, and your dh may feel that as he spends less time with your ds that he needs to get his piece in. Disagreeing with everything you do and having an opinion on everything may be his way of trying to be involved in ds's upbringing. You need to find some way of communicating with each other where you both feel that your opinion is respected. Maybe try to sit down with him and say that the constant discord between you is upsetting for you and must also be frustrating for him, and how can you get back on the same 'team' instead of fighting against each other? Books are often a good way of approaching something like this, each reading it and then discussing bits and what you think of it. I can recommend 'Why Did Nobody Tell Me?' by Mumsnet (I don't work for Mumsnet!) as it is entertaining and you don't feel like you are reading a nagging parenting book that makes you feel like you're doing it all wrong.

There is a picture of a parenting styles seesaw that seems to sum up your situation:

A_C_B
^

It sounds like your DH is parent A - aggressive and authoritarian. You sound like parent B, passive and easy going.

I think you both need to work on becoming more like parent C - effective and assertive while remaining respectful and caring...with each other as well as with your DC. Try having a look at parentchannel.tv or books like "Raising Happy Children" by Parker and Stimpson. And talk to each other when things are calm and theoretical rather than in the midst of a battle.

Thank you everyone, its useful to have other peoples views on the situation. Will look at buying the books you mentioned. Reading the same books then discussing them may help. Sounds silly but I'm not very good at expressing myself out loud, am far more comfortable with things written down so it may help! If I could hand him a Dr Sears book and say - there, read that! (at the very least it might keep him quiet long enough to stop nagging me!)
Piprabbit - you've hit the nail on the head with summing us both up, strange! I think that probably like a lot of relationships, there's a bit of a communication breakdown. But also I just generally think we don't understand each other, our parenting styles are so different. Our parents are polar opposites too and we've had very different upbringings so I suppose that adds to it. I think we are losing respect for one another.
I think dh may have changed his mind about more children (we've not had the conversation but know him well) and I can't bear the idea of no more babies!

I think you present your DH views very negatively and that maybe you need to look at how your responding to your DH as well as your DS. (Obviously your DS is sick so now is not the best time to sort it out) but maybe your husband doesn't like cosleeping as much as you, maybe he feels that you both should be able to have your evening back and have a bit of 'you time'. Maybe he is finding having children a strain on the old relationship that you used to have together. Maybe he is feeling pushed out of being a parent & being involved in decisions.

Attachment parenting is all well and good but if it is to the detriment of your relationship with your husband i really think you need to readdress and consider some compromise. My style of parenting is much more like your husband and I could understand feeling being pushed out if my partner was very AP with no compromise and completely disagreed with my opinions. Your DS is his son as well and although you have strong views you need to see how it is affecting your DH and your relationship. Sit down with him and explain why you feel your way is important but make sure you listen to your DH views and why he thinks his values are important.

Thank you roro.
Deep down I probably know that what you've said about how dh feels is spot on. The lack of us time does get him down. And he misses our old life. We'd only been married 3months when I fell pregnant. Normally when DS isn't poorly we do have an evening together but rarely go out. With regards to the co-sleeping when DS is ill I suppose I just figure that since I am the only one who will get up to him (and I was unwell too) I should be the one who ultimately makes the decision. I can put DS in his cot and nobody gets any sleep, or I can lie him down next to me and generally the comfort helps him and i don't hear a peek. Its not even like I co-sleep all the time, I stopped on my dh wishes. ( stopped breastfeeding too at 11months, partly because of his views) and now only do it when poorly as it makes my life so much easier.
In some ways because he has never done any of the night times I don't think he really understands how exhausting it can be. I said I'd do sleep training with DS next weekend when he'll be better but this wasn't enough and suggested I start it on Monday (ie tomorrow) - even though I have to be up for work at 6am! I suppose I am the kind of person who takes the path of least resistance and don't really see the rush, don't see what difference a few days makes.
Either way, neither of us are happy at the moment.

Can you compromise on other issues and help DH have a sense that he also has some say in how the household runs?

Sleep is such a major issue - and seems to have a more direct impact on you as you deal with all the night wakings, despite not bf anymore (if I read your posts right) - so I'd say you should be able to choose how you deal with it (unless you agree to share the night shifts more evenly).

But there must be other areas where you can compromise? For example, could you do one day with the grandparents, one day at nursery? We do that (not as a compromise, it's what we both wanted) and it works really well for DS.

It feels a bit like you're saying "it's my way or the high way" and DH has no input at all. There are lots of different ways to parent and it sounds like you do need to find a balance.

Remember that a stable home life and consistency of parenting are also important for children, and while not always possible, are really worth striving for and putting effort into. Caring for children (especially your first) can be all-consuming but it's so important to nurture your relationship with your partner too.

Good luck.

I empathise OP and the only thing i can suggest is compromise which is easier said than done. It takes a lot of hard work.

DH and I hold the same values and view the world in very similar ways i suppose, so we have a fundamental agreement about manners, living and letting other live etc. But the way in which we each choose to instill those values in our DS by dealing with his behaviour is very different. I think he's too strict, he thinks i'm too soft. I think he's a pessimist and that colours his reaction to most things, he says he's a realist and that i'm overly idealistic.

I remember lots of arguments in the early days. The trick is to communicate, talk honestly without allowing it to descend into an argument, acknowledge the aspects that you each find the hardest to deal with and work on reaching a compromise from there.

For example, DH agrees with naughty steps. I don't like them much. So we agreed to call it 'time out' and reserve it only for the things that we both (not separately) cannot tolerate. In practice, time out is only ever used when DS is aggressive and hits/ kicks/ bites other people.

Thank you matana.
This parenting business certainly isn't easy.
On one hand I think I'm probably a bit of a naïve first time mum and am not likely to make the same mistakes if we have any more. But then I go on to think...but this is just the way I think, this is the way I was brought up and I'm just going with my instincts. I probably need to learn to compromise. But its so hard to do things involving your children when you don't believe they are right. Perhaps we just aren't compatible parents.

.... but CT148 its not about things being right or wrong - both ways of parenting are completely valid - you both love your son and neither of you are in the wrong - you just think a bit differently. By being so sure that you are 'right' means that you risk alienating your DH.

Talk things through with each other but try not to phrase things as right and wrong - in parenting very little is black and white, right or wrong etc.

Tbh I think if you are the one doing the night wakings, then you can be the one to decide how unbearably sleep deprived you'll be!

Does he sleep in the spare room or with you? Does DS disturb him too?

Whilst I agree that compromise is important, I don't actually think it's a completely 50/50 situation when you are the one breastfeeding, getting up in the night, and being the main carer. I don't think that it's right for you to have to stop breast feeding, for example, based soley on his views. But perhaps that wasn't what happened?

It's really hard, but maybe some kind of counselling would benefit you guys, or writing each other letters? Show him this thread?

There's a book by Oliver James about different parenting styles- How Not to F* Them Up- that might be useful.

Yes, i should have said that when DS was a baby, DH tended to bow to my judgement and actually told me not to read parenting books and go with my instinct. He made the occasional comment which i took seriously, but if i explained where i was coming from with my reasoning he more often than not accepted it.

But now DS is a toddler, we have to work harder at agreeing to compromise on certain things. DH assumes that as DS is older, he is more capable of managing his emotions and behaviour than when he was a baby. But in reality, toddlers need even more patience, love and affection because they're venturing out into the big wide world, which can be quite scary for them. They cannot control their reaction to situations. So DH and i have lots of 'talks' about the best way forward... though we've become better at not arguing.

Exhaustipated - when DS is poorly and sleeps next to me dh tends to go in the spare room, which I suppose might make him feel a bit lonely. When DS is in his own room and wakes in the night dh will often wake up (tho not always, sleeps like a bloody log), but he never actually gets up. He maintains that he still wakes up when DS wakes so its still disturbed sleep and its nearly the same as getting up! Er, actually no its not cos dh then goes straight back to sleep!
With regard to the stopping breastfeeding thing, I probably would have done it for longer but he would often ask me when I was gonna stop and made jokey comments that I'd still be doing it when DS was a teenager etc. I wouldn't mind but at this point DS was still a baby and I stopped altogether when DS was 11months so it was hardly extended breastfeeding. It comes back to us being brought up so massively differently I think. I was breastfed til I was 2 and to me its so natural and good. Where as dh was bottlefed and his family do not see the point of breastfeeding at all. his parents would make comments like 'he'll be 10 by the time he's on the bottle.' Again, at this point DS was only 3 months old!! (not saying anything against those who choose to bottle feed here, just believe its very rude to comment on someones personal choice either way)
The idea of writing letters could be a good one. I get all mixed up and forget what I'm trying to say out loud, and it often just ends up turning into an argument. Find it hard to justify my reasoning. And I will take a look at that book, thank you.
Matana - sounds like you and your dh are much better at communicating than us. I think that we need to take a leaf out of your book. I suppose we sometimes expect our partners to understand instinctively why we act a certain way or do certain things, when in reality we probably need to spell it out a bit more. I've certainly said more in this thread than I've explained to my dh and that's wrong.

I wonder whether your DH is reacting so strongly because he feels ignored and that his opinion isn't respected. It is hard when you have such strong instincts as a mum as to what your little one needs, and also during the early months whilst on maternity leave you get to follow those instincts pretty much 100% of the time, so fathers can feel left out and it is more difficult later when back at work and parenting is shared to find a position of both of you having input.

I read something on a website that made sense to me - that pre-baby it is you and DH who are a team together; that immediately after baby is born mum and baby tend to form a strong two-way bond, to the exclusion of the mum's relationship with her partner, and that one needs to find a position where the three of you are a family, i.e. mum and DH are a team in looking after baby.

I've been in a similar situation over sleeping/nights and decided I had to dig my feet in over things that felt really uncomfortable to me like CIO, but equally with the perspective of time (DS now 2.5) found that my husband was right on some things. As mother I tended to panic (even during the daytime) at the merest thought that LO was upset / tired / hungry, but have now learned to stand back a little, that if he cries for a few minutes it isn't the end of the world, I'll get there to comfort him soon enough - so sometimes it is a case of learning to relax a little and try to re-balance your reactions/emotional stance towards you/your needs and towards your relationship with DH, so it isn't all about baby (though baby still important, and it is clear from your post that your DH loves your DS too so that is a strong bond that you have between you and DH).

It is hard to make that mental and emotional shift but gets easier as your child gets older to see him/her as an independent person. In the meantime devote time to just you / DH to make DH feel he has some of your attention. Hopefully the sleeping will also improve and they get tougher at coping with illness - the first few times they are ill they have nothing to compare it to, I find now that DS would rather be in his own cot. On the sleep side - be warned that after so long of only you dealing with bedtimes/nights, your DS may not accept your DH. That was our experience, still the case over a year after I decided we should be sharing.

Re nursery - it may not be as bad as you think. My personal experience would be to consider this as one potentially to concede on (or at least explore the possibility). I was worried about my DS starting but he absolutely adores it, they genuinely care for him (I can tell they are really pleased to see him back from their reaction after an absence of illness), and it gives him different experiences and the experience of interacting with children his own age.

Sorry, a bit rambling and I hope that all makes sense, hope that reading different people's perspectives will help you.

ct148 No advice I'm afraid but in the exact same situation! (with the exact same divide of views/responsibilities). Reading responses eagerly looking for a solution. It is so tiring to argue all the time on top of normal baby night-wakings.

Lonesomebiscuit - thanks for your post. I think you're probably right in that dh probably does feel left out/ignored, and that's something I should try to address. I think dh has found the change from there being 2 of us to 3 quite difficult. He is an only child to (in my opinion) very full on, quite suffocating parents and is used to being centre of attention, and then when we met obviously all my attention was on him too, and I think he has struggled since DS arrived and craves my attention nearly as much as DS does. So I suppose I need to make more time for him. Though he doesn't seem to care that sometimes all the nagging and starting arguments is just serving to make me unhappy and start to resent him, rather than want to change things. Emotionally its exhausting, but then I'm sure he feels the same.

The bit where you said you used to panic if you thought your DS could possibly by hungry or tired etc really struck a cord. I do tend to feel like that and can't bear to think of him being even remotely sad. Maybe I need to learn to stand back a bit and know that he will be ok. But its so hard.

Re nursery - how old is your DS? I think that now my DS is getting older it wouldn't upset me so much him going to nursery and think he would probably be ok. It was just that when I went back to work when he turned 1 I wasn't sure how he was going to be as I hadn't really been away from him ever. I just felt better with him going to my mum, someone he knew well. I'd like him to go to nursery at a local primary school when he's 3 when we get the free childcare as I don't earn a lot and it would get him used to going there (oh my god, actually, I'm dreading it already- think I'm just an overprotective mum)

Delilha - sorry to hear you're having problems too. you're so right, it is bloody tiring. in fact, I've found the relationship with dh the hardest thing to deal with since becoming a mum. I've (just about) coped with the sleepless nights, crying, isolation, change of lifestyle etc, but this is something else! I hope your situation improves!

TBH it sounds like your baby your rules DP is only his father your his mother you know best and your DP doesn't know whats best for your son. Your not really being a team player either.

If you comprimised with say nursery one day a week maybe your DP would feel like a co parent. My DS goes to a childminder from 8 til 2 then to my mum he is 13mo and i think it's very good for him he loves it.

Sorry it sounds harsh but it all seems to be your rules your way i wouldn't like DP to do that to me i think you need to take your 100% focus you have on whats best for your child and at least give 20% to whats best for your relationship, fighting parents is going to be a lot worse for him than crying for a few mins.

Apart from making you unhappy, OP, there are other risks to 'split' parenting:

1. Your DS will only ever listen to you because your way is 'nicer'. This will drive a further wedge between you and your DP, but furthermore dilutes the relationship and the bond between your DP and your DS. That is not healthy for anybody - least of all your DS. It's so important for children to have a close bond with both parents and boys in particular look to their dads as role models as they get older. Reducing that bond risks reducing your DS's capacity to learn how to become a well-rounded individual that comes from a good relationship with both parents.

1. Because of the above, all the childcaring responsiblity will way heavily on you. When DS screams because he doesn't want his dad to bath him or whatever, you'll end up doing it for a quiet life. Except it's not a quiet life, especially as you're working. DH and I both work FT and i rely on DH heavily to support me with childcare - i could not do it without him as my job can have unsocial hours and is very draining at times. If i didn't trust him to do the right thing i'd do everything on my own i'd burn myself out. That is not an option either.

I suppose what i'm saying is, the imperative to reach compromise in parenting is pretty clear as the alternative carries bigger, longer term risks than your DS being momentarily unhappy for a short space of time. You have little option but to make it work between you, or go your separate ways. If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always got.