Talking to Strangers (a bit long and rambly ... sorry)

[GeorginaA]

Feeling a bit depressed about the state of the world and secretly hoping for some positive vibes

Had a conversation with someone today and I was saying how much ds (2.5) is thrilled when someone replies to him with a cheery "hello" (he is going through the stage now of waving to the bin men, saying hello to people he meets in Tescos, etc). Worcestershire bin men seem to be great and make a point to wave and smile at him and it really makes his day.

Anyway, this person mentioned that the reason she didn't talk back to small children was that she felt it encouraged them to talk to strangers which did two things:

a) made me wonder whether that made me a bad parent for not trying to discourage ds' friendliness.

b) made me feel that the world totally sucks.

Some random thoughts: I really like that ds is friendly and gets some responses. It has seemed to make great inroads into building up his confidence over the last few months.

I also casually wondered to myself whether the increasing perception of society that young people are rude and uncommunicative is partially due to our fears and the discouragement to talk to strangers politely. When you hear that more kids died last year from suicide after bullying rather than abductions, and that most sexual abuse is from a family member, then it does make you wonder a bit.

Surely, there's a middle ground where you can teach children to be polite but not accept things/go with them/etc?

Sometimes, I really dislike the world ds is growing up in

@I know what you mean about talking to strangers. DD1 and DS have been told that they shouldn't talk to strangers unless I'm there with them.

Georgina - I share your concerns, but I will be teaching my ds to smile and be polite and friendly and emulate my friendliness. Living here in Germany has really made me concious of this as germans can be so private and reserved and it of course rubs off on their kiddies from an early age. I can smile and give a little wave to little kids looking at me in a shop and they will just frown back at you - wouldn't happen back home that is for sure.

I totally agree with you Georgina, I don't see why we need to inspire fear of strangers in our children when the chances of being abused by strangers is tiny, even smaller than getting abused by somebody known to the family. To inspire fear of strangers in them is to remove a bit of their innocence ourselves and make them grow in fear which incidentally are the also the consequences of abuse.

I find it really sad to see so many mothers who identify potential paedophiles in every single stranger who dares to say hello, and it breaks my heart to see how old people can be friendly to somebody's dog but are not allowed to be friendly to children.

Some years ago there were some ads on TV which I thought were great to teach children to identify potential dangerous situations without going into violent details. They used to have an adult talking a children into something like follow him to see some puppies or promisin the child a new toy in exchange of something. The slogan of the campaign translates more or less as follows: "If you have to hide to do it, and they ask you to keep the secret, say NO to that person and tell it to the person you trust the most."

appologies for the spelling is a bit late...

Hi GeorginaA

My DS and DD have always been taught to say Good Morning and smile to people - including strangers. It maks the walk to school and through the park so much nicer to be able to have a chat to people. Both children have also been taught/are being taught that they must not go off with a stranger (or indeed anyone, if it hasn't already been agreed with me). I do believe it's important for children to do this as it does give them confidence and I enjoy talking to people in the park too.

I know that we have to be careful to teach our children about the dangers that are about, but they have to have fun too. There is a middle ground and that's how my two are being brought up.

I always smile and wave at babies and little kids in supermarket queues etc. It makes the time pass quicker and there is nothing cuter than a kids shy grin as they realise you are waving at them. Similarly I always say hello to people walking their dogs and doing their gardening when I am out pushing the buggy. I want my ds to see that you should be polite and friendly when you are out and about. I think that the important point is that that's all it is - a "hello". When ds is older I will of course teach him about stranger danger, but there is a big difference between a smile and a wave and going to "look at some puppies" or whatever dodgy people say these days. I think it's sad that the lady you met thinks like that, and she is missing out on one of life's joys.

DD always smiles, waves and says hello to anyone she shes - no stopping her sometimes! And generally they respond back. She loves it and I think it is nice.

I always respond to children who do it to me too. Hadn't thought of not too I am afraid.

I think as she will get older we will do the saety issues with her and not talking to strangers if not with mum/dad, etc.

Another vote for your point of view here Georgina.

We met a little boy on holidays last year. He must have been about 5 and my DS (who was the same age) wanted to be his friend. He walked up to him at the pool, smiled, said 'hi my name is X do you want to play?' The poor kid turned around and almost spat "you're a STRANGER, don't talk to me!" My DS was really upset.

I vote for friendliness too. My ds is being brought up abroad with a very mediterranean approach to kids - so he gets more attention than he would ever get in the UK all year in just one day. I'm sure I've written this here before but I get upset when we go back to the UK and ds tries to be friendly to people who just ignore him, or even worse, make a big fuss of the dog instead. I think it's great when people wave at him, say hi or give him a kiss and a sweet(sorry - know this is not the culturally accepted norm in the UK though).
I also know plenty of adults who've gone to the UK on holiday and upset parents by being overfriendly to their kids.

well, my dd is more wary of adults than kids and i don't think she'd go over to a strange adult but lots and lots of people talk to her and i certainly don't discourage it. I have lived away alot of my life and one of the reasons i'm gald i returned to the NorthEast to bring up dd is because people are so freindly.
I am with bobthebaby, i will be the one waving and pulling faces to some little one in a queue.
I will teach dd as when when i need to as to the dangers but for the mo i love her innocence and other peoples freindliness. There is no time she is without me or dp or nana so she is safe to talk to who she likes at the moment. Of course i would never teach her to walk away or anything with an unknown adult, but she wouldn't anyway, her confidence with other kids amazes me though, she'll go right up t a group of kids and say,"hello, can i play with you?"

I think teaching children to be confident and assertive in responding to friendly strangers will actually protect them from abuse. If they grow up being used to talking to adults, then they will be in a better position to be firm and say 'no' to an unwelcome overture. My children benefitted loads from talking to adult strangers when they were small ... for example last year on the way to school some guys were in their front garden with a telescope, and they beckoned us over and showed ds1 Mercury (I think?) projected onto a screen, and told him loads about planets and star-gazing.

We moved to the NW last year from Oxfordshire, and people are generally much more open and friendly here. (Sweeping generalisation I know )

When they are small (say under 5) they are probably never going to be out of your sight anyway. When they are about 5, an excellent book to use to talk about the issue is this one It has a very common sense approach, and doesn't leave the reader scared witless.

sorry - just come back and re-read this - didn't mean to sound so anti-uk - long day at work and in a bit of a rush. also not terribly positive.

So, my favourite thing in the UK is when strangers wave at ds at train stations/on trains- I remember my dad always does this on trains and now I know why - cute as anything when they wave back too! Thre's something magical about trains - maybe I was just brought up on The Railway children?

Thank you for all your comments - I know I pre-emtively filtered responses in a way by specifying I was hoping for positive messages (laugh) but it really has made me feel much better by hearing these stories, thank you.

I think partly it was the implied message that I was being a bad parent for not stopping him talking to people, when it's often these little encounters that give both me and ds a real boost in our lives. I'm really thrilled that he's overcoming his shyness and becoming a very cheerful and interactive little boy. Of course, I want to keep him safe, but at the same time I don't want to quash that outgoing, friendly impulse. I'm glad to hear that there is some sort of middle ground we can aim for.

Thank you also for the book recommendation, kmg ... have put it on my amazon wish list for future reference so I don't forget it!

Know exactly how you feel GeorginaA I sometimes feel I am doing our children a real dis-service by having had them in the first place and it's not just "stranger danger" either. It's a really difficult issue and as has been said it is so often reported that the dangerous person is someone the child knows well so that's were I end up even more worried at times!!!!!

KMG1 thank you so much for the link I have long been wondering about any suitable books that don't scare the living daylights out of a child so will give it a try. My dd is easy to scare so I often mask my fears with silly reasoning but for how long I can continue to do this without her thinking "oh mum you are soooooo silly"

I very much encourage my ds to talk to random strangers. I also encourage him to order his own cake and drink in cafes ('Pleeeese Mr Cake Man, can I have some cake?' and pay in shops and on the bus etc. I hope it will make him more confident and I know he enjoys his encounters and hopefully makes other people happy too - esp old ladies! We usually chat to all sorts, the postman, the lady in the corner shop, the local dog walker - anyone really. I like the feeling it gives me of being part of a community and I want my ds to think the world is basically a good place and people are basically good. I think that's a splendid attitude to have throughout life. And I think it's true as well. And as my ds is never away from adult supervision (he's not yet 2 1/2) I cannot see any problem with this. I think bringing children up to be unfriendly and suspicious can be positively damaging.

I wish that a woman I met in Tesco's yesterday had read this thread - she had a little girl with her, aged about 3 or 4, who spotting me with DS2, pointed and said baby. I smiled and said yes, a baby boy, do you want to say hello to him, as I bent down to show her. All perfectly natural I thought, but her mum did not, she grabbed her hand and told her "we don't talk to strangers" and snapped at me that I should know better! I felt really upset by the encounter, I didn't think I had done anything wrong - its not as if I went up to her at the playground or whathaveyou - the whole thing made me feel rotten and hormonally tearful
DS1 at 14 is way past this sort of issue, but he always chatted to people, paid the driver on the bus, said hello to the postman etc knowing this was okay cos mum was around.

God, there is no way I can stop DD prattling on at random strangers. She waves at anyone or anything going by and shouts 'Hellooo Laydeeee'. Most are just lovely and either wave and reply or simply smile at her, but some are incredibly cold with her too. I never really thought about it from the pov of not wanting to encourage other peoples kids to talk to strangers. Sometimes I really feel like saying to the people who blank DD, 'Would it KILL you to at least SMILE at her ???!!'. It breaks my heart as she just keeps on waving and shouting as they walk by if they don't respond

Sad you have had that experience Lisa, unfortunately is becoming terribly common. One of my co-workers one day brang her 5 year old to work and the marketing director, who is a lovely lady who always manages to make the rest of the world happy, aproached the boy and said:

• OH Johnny! you are so big now, you are such a nice boy!!! how are you?? and johnny shouted as loud as he could: -MUUUMMMYYY she is molesting me!!!! before running to his mother arms... I was horrified, the lady was so embarrased as every single person in the office hear him and his mother just hold him up and didn't say anything about it (nor even a sorry), since that day nobody dares to look at the child, forget about saying hello... poor child he must be thinking that he lives in a very hostile world!

roam and Georgina - glad you appreciated the link to the book. Feel I should confess really ... Now where did I first hear about it? Oh yes, I know! It must have been on here! Ages ago - possibly two years ago. Hope you find it as helpful and approachable as we have.

No need to confess Book recommendations like that need to be repeated regularly anyway, in my opinion, as you don't tend to register them until your child gets to that "stage" when you really need them!! I've lost count of the number of times when I've read a mumsnet thread and thought "oh, that sounds useful" and then forgotten all about it two days later because it wasn't relevant to me at the time...

Feeling faintly horrified at Chandra's and Lisa78's stories - not just awful for the kids but for the people they come in contact with...

I'm with you, Georgina. Lisa, Chandra, those stories are awful - what rotten people

I'm also in favour of friendliness and greeting people in the street etc. As Aloha says, I want my children to grow up believing the world is basically nice and mostly full of benevolent people. Then hopefully they will be able to spot an abnormal overture and deal with it sensibly.
When ds and I went to nursery by bus I always encouraged him to say hello and thank-you to the bus driver and he made a lot of friends on our bus home, packed with students.
He also knows and greets everyone in the library on Saturdays, and his current favourite is the teenage boy Saturday assistant with black nail varnish and bobbed hair ("is that a man or a lady?" in a piercing whisper the first time we met him).
I am also a waver and talker to other small children and it had honestly never occurred to me that this might contravene other parents' rules about stranger danger. How sad.
Thanks for the link, Kmg, I probably saw it when ds was one and thought the same as you

My children are always chatting to "strangers" - shops/streets etc and I will chat to other children when we're out. It just seems natural to me and I must admit it hasn't crossed my mind to think any different.

I was in a situation a little while back in the play area at the zoo. I saw a little boy who goes to the nursery I work at who came bounding over to me to talk. As I start work at 9.15am I usually don't get to meet any parents as the children are usually dropped off by then.

Anyway, little boy chatting to me - I look up to find 2 men and a woman glaring at me. Woman comes marching over, grabbed boy whilst shouting at him not to talk to strangers and shouting at me I explained that I worked at the nursery etc, then preceded to tell me that I should know better (I even had my own 3 children with me at the time who were horrified).

Suffice to say, this experience has put me off and I actively go out of my way now to avoid any nursery children I see out unless I know the parents.

Slinky, that is terrible and in front of your children!!, that woman should be a barking neurotic she should have appologised for that. I just imagine how bad DS would have feel if I screamed to the person who sings to him all mornings and who could possibly spend as much time with him as I do, is terrible...

Having said that is sad that we as parents don't realise or tend to forget that our children have also a world of their own.

I'm agree that saying hello to strangers is a good thing.

I think kmg has made a good point - if children are used to being friendly with stangers that can protect them from abuse later on. They know how to respond appropriately and understand the'rules' so are more likely to spot a strange request.

My sons are very sociable and need no encouragement to talk to strangers. I have been very impressed to see how clued up my oldest son is when we encounter an 'odd' person. This has happened from time to time on the bus, queuing up for fish and chips, at the theatre etc. With hardly a look from me, he has picked up on the odd vibes and followed my lead in humouring the person or ending the conversation. I can't say this is simply because he's been sociable with adults for all his life, but it's heartening to think he knows when things are 'not right'.