Boys. Are they really that different?

[sedgieloo]

I have a two year old girl. I just had a baby boy a few weeks ago. We did not find out the gender and we are thrilled.

I've been on the advice boards quite a bit, as one does with a newborn and a challenging toddler.

I'm noticing quite a few threads suggesting boys are high energy destructive little brutes who take ages to learn to talk and difficult to tame. That is to say, far fewer such threads relating to girls.

Is there something I should know? Ought I be reading that raising boys book?

If I find a thread I will link, but they go like this; 'why is my toddler destructive and does he have ADHD?', and tons of replies like this; 'normal. All my boys are like this. My dd would sit doing crafts for hours, you need to take them for 3 mile walks x2 a day'

Just wondering

I need a regular physical run out or I go mad. Last time I checked I was female. In fact I am currently in a huff in my bedroom as DH and DS are happy to sit around cuddling, reading and playing imaginative games with dolls and dinosaurs. I am desperate to go out and run around....and they are jus embarking on a nice but of drawing.

So I think personality has more to do with it than anything else.

Before I had children I firmly thought that any gender differences (apart from the obvious!) were solely down to the way boys and girls are treated differently, in very subtle ways as well as big ways, from birth.

But having had two boys I have revised my opinion! I don't think one can make sweeping statements like "all boys are X", but I do think, in general, more boys are innately - not destructive little brutes but, how can I say, more active, more competitive/ fighty/ physical - and in my experience. less inclined to sleep. My mum had three girls and she says she definitely notices a difference (my sister hasd two boys also).

I know girls can be like that too, and boys can be quieter, I'm just saying in general this is how I am seeing it with my boys, boys I know and girls I know.

I have 2 boys and 1 girl. They are all very different and I put nearly everything down to personality rather than gender. DD does like dolls more than the boys did, but she is also much more keen on climbing things and ball games.

The only thing I put down to gender is that I've noticed her fine motor skills are better and I think generally that it has been shown girls develop those earlier. But that's the only thing I'm not putting down to personality.

Boys on average develop physically ahead of girls. There will always be exceptions - its just an average. So yes, boys need more physical outlets on average. They also need physical play with their dads.

My boy is typical in that respect - walking at 10 months and very physically developed by 3. He's ahead of his peers in that respect but about average for other stuff and a little behind socially.

DD is only 13 months but she walked two months later than him and likes "reading". Who knows if she'll be a typical boy.

Just take your boy as he comes. Make sure he gets plenty of positive attention from male role models (this is why male teachers are important. DS adores his male preschool teachers!) and lots of outdoor play - again on average boys learn in a practical way with their hands and doing stuff. Suits them more.

*typical girl

My DS needs enormous amounts of exercise - but is also affectionate, has cars' tea-parties in the dolls house, plays with his toy kitchen, loves drawing, is beginning to get into writing (in reception) and shows signs of having much neater handwriting than me. And we have sword fights and play goodies and baddies lots too (but so does his little female friend up the road too).

Had a big party on Saturday - 12 children in the house at one point, 10 of them boys under 7. My Dad commented afterwards how affectionate and gentle the little boys were with the two babies (one at the walking stage, other at the cruising and wobbling stage). This led us onto a discussion of how gender stereotypes really short-change boys as well as girls: little boys are naturally nurturing and socially aware, and as a parent you can either encourage this and produced rounded, happy human beings, or inflict the stiff-upper-lip, boys don't cry, "little monster" t-shirt stereotypes on them and condemn them to an adulthood of being emotionally stunted and messed up.

Enjoy your little boy! I'm having a fantastic time with my DS.

I agree with pp who said about individual differences just as important. I have three very young nieces who I'd say are average in terms of energy levels. My nephew (now 6) was/is fairly similar to them in terms of energy and physicality. My DD is completely different. When she is awake she's like a tornado. If held or sitting on someone's knee she bounces and climbs all over. She is pulling to stand and attempting to walk at 7.5months which of course she can't yet do properly but just wants to throw herself into everything. She's hilarious but very energetic. My mum (who had 5 children, 3 boys 2 girls) just shakes her head and laughs. Apparently she is just like my youngest brother but the rest of us weren't like that. I also think that burning off a bit of excess energy helps all children sleep better, eat better and concentrate better.

I haven't noticed a huge amount of difference between DS and DD. DS is a bit more energetic and into bike riding etc., whereas DD prefers music and drawing, but that probably has as much to do with personality as gender.

I think the problem lies with other people's children. So many people bring their children up in a gender stereotyped way, often without realising it, and as children naturally seem to gravitate towards those of their own sex, the 'boyness' or 'girlness' seems to multiply the more children are playing together. Eg. if DS is playing with a group of boys, there will always be at least one who is loud and rough and aggressive and somehow all the boys end up playing in a boisterous way. But I know when he plays with his female friends they will play in a more traditionally female way (usually involving him dressing up in a leotard or fairy dress!) Peer influence has a strong effect.

I think each individual is just that, an individual. My ds is not the same as every other little boy I know and nor is my niece the same as every other little girl.

However, society certainly treats boys and girls differently from the moment they are born. People constantly give them messages about what boys and girls are and what their gender roles are. There have been experiments where a baby is put in a pink babygrow - everyone treats them gently and talks about how pretty they are. And the same baby in a blue babygrow and everyone talks about how strong they are. With toddlers, people will assume boys are pointing at a car and make 'vroom vroom' noises, even if it could be any of dozens of different objects.

You can't make generalisations about the innate preferences and talents of boys and girls without stripping out social conditioning, and it's impossible to strip out the social conditioning that starts the moment they are born. (Even I caught myself saying 'Mummy's little soldier' to baby ds, which is bizarre given we don't have any soldiers in the family and I'm fully aware of all this conditioning - it just tripped off my tongue!)

We have 3 boys and dd. all the boys were laid back, easy going, never ever caused any problems. They have all left home now, the worse thing they ever did, was one of them purloined a small council recycling box and was bought home by the police!

Dd is demanding, awkward and contrary. Still lovely but more difficult than all the other 3 combined

I have two boys and a girl.
My eldest boy is 11. He has never been destructive or anything like a brute.

My middle child is a boy - he just turned 5. He's not destructive or a brute either.
My daughter will be 4 in Feb. No destruction or brutishness.

In my book, being destructive or a brute is intolerable behaviour. I wouldn't write it off as boys being boys. It's children being naughty.

iggly, boys on average develop gross motor skills at a younger age than girls, but girls on average develop fine motor skills at a younger age than boys. Who knows whether this is innate or to do with conditioning that means boys are given more opportunities/encouragement to develop gross skills and girls more opportunities to develop fine skills... and it's only averages anyway, plenty of individuals will not be average.

ds didn't walk until 17 months, btw. So your girl who is walking at 13 months is way ahead of my boy!

IME (2 boys, one girl) boys are basically simpler. My DD is way more complicated then her brothers. Obviously each child is different in personality etc but I do think there is a difference between the genders.

DS1 is calm and laid back, DS2 hugely challenging and hyper but both are basically straightforward. DD is between the two personality wise but more complicated to handle.

Exactly Soupdragon. Boys are less complex and more straightforward

I have a little boy, he's the most loveable little thing in the world. Yes, he's more physical than other children but well that's just the way he is. He isn't destructive, nor is he a brute. I feel very sad that boys as a gender are made out to be horrid little creatures, over supposedly perfect little girls.

My little boy loves pretend cooking, playing dress up and gravitates towards babies so he can help look after them. He also adores sticker books and paints. He also loves being outside and has ruined so many trousers getting stuck into the great outdoors that I'm thinking of taking out shares in cotton. He is who he is, he shouldn't be defined by his gender alone.

Bedhog and Pantomime are spot-on about gender stereotyping kicking in early. Lise Elliot (neurologist, author of Pink Brain, Blue Brain) recounts a fascinating experiment. Babies round about 9 months were dressed in white babygrows and left with adults who didn't know them in a room with inclined ramps, and allowed to explore. The boys and girls both tackled ramps of the same steepness. Then the babies were put in the room with their mothers. Mothers of boys correctly estimated the maximum steepness their babies could manage. Mothers of girls consistently underestimated what their babies were capable of. (There's another experiment, can't remember where I read about it, where even younger babies were dressed at random in blue or pink - adults picked up the blue-clad babies facing outwards, and took them round the room to explore, while the pink babies were dandled on knees facing in and told they were beautiful).

I was reminded of the ramp experiment one day in the park when DS was about 3. He was hurtling down a hill, and I was wondering whether I had plasters in my bag (normal risk-assessment on my part - are we looking at serious injury or just splat-ouch?). His two girl friends of the same age followed him, and their parents immediately started telling them to slow down and be careful - clearly "just splat-ouch" wasn't an acceptable level of risk as far as they were concerned.

oh chist are we still going on with the girls=complex/devious stuff

Thanks for all the replies! I only mumsnet on my phone when bf and just checked back. I only just found the parenting board. I have referenced the behaviour and development one a lot so this may explain my exposure to many 'problem' threads.

I need to read the replies properly, but would add that whereas i have not thought about this before, my assumption has been that it is a question of individuals/personality over gender. I was a little on the hyper side as a child and put my mum through her paces. Of my two brothers one was very shy and content and thoughtful. The other more like myself and am incredibly early talker. My dd is herself very exuberant but she does ask to go in her high chair to do drawing or plasticine, and will play alone for ages. She is a very very early talker.

It was my midwives comment that first got me thinking. As she discharged me she said, my advice regarding boys is treat them like puppies feed them up and exercise them well if you skip one of those there will be hell to pay.

I began to mention this to friends with boys and they seemed to heartily agree. So I got to wondering. Ill have a good read of your comments now. Thank you.

I do not think you can generalise on the grounds of a child's sex as to behaviour. Every child has their issues - personality, age difference between siblings, order of birth .... It is just too simple to nail it down to a single factor.

I think you have to take advice dor what it is - just a suggestion that may or not work for you. I have a very active, immature 6yo boy and it soes him and me a disservice by putting it all down to 'just being a boy'

I think the "more complex" thing depends on the child. DS has a good friend from back at nursery who is naughty (not in a malicious way, more in an experimental, "what will happen if" sort of way - the results are actually very funny in a Just William sort of way). Now they're at school, DS is getting mature enough to realise he doesn't actually want to be drawn into his friend's madcap schemes; simultaneously the friend is attracting a new gang of followers who are more biddable. DS quite often comes home from school a bit upset saying "X wouldn't play with me at lunchtime", or "X doesn't like me as much as he used to", but will also say things like "I don't want to play with X 'cos he makes me be naughty". The complications seem just as intense and fraught as those I've heard mothers of girls ascribe to "typical girl friendships".

I have 2 boys: DS1 (4) who spoke very early and walked quite late, and now spends his days quietly playing lego and trains, colouring in and drawing, helping me in the kitchen etc, is extremely (overly) conscientious at school, gentle, sensitive, hesitant in large groups (e.g. parties) and seems quite complex to me. DS2 (almost 2) doesn't speak much and doesn't sit still either - likes to jump off things, climb the furniture and generally behave in a slightly feral manner. So IMO although there may be a slight gender bias towards personality types, all children are different and gender isn't that much of a predictor as to how your child will turn out.

oh chist are we still going on with the girls=complex/devious stuff

You're the only one who appears to have mentioned devious

Care to elaborate?

Oh my god, the fecking sticks!!!! or sometimes even logs.....

Since toddlerhood - amazingly every stick is different and this one has a lovely pattern and that one looks like a gun/catapult/cat

Tantrums when we refused to load yet another oddly shaped lump of wood into the boot of the car to take home.

The obsession continues - then it was collecting in volume with a wheelbarrow in order to have a fire.......now (age 11 and 12) it is whittling them into stuff - bows and arrows mainly and my driveway is contantly covered in wood shavings.

Please tell me it will stop!!

As for the girl/boy thing, I agree a lot of it is personality and assumptions - the girls in our extended family were always wilder than the boys.

My own boys were energetic and liked a good wrestle, but were equally happily doing play-doh/lego/crafts.

All children [and adults] need a good bit of fresh air and exercise every day.

Dd is 11 months she is high spirited

She is into everything more than her older brother

Shouts and mews until she gets what she wants (not always )

0 to 60 screaming if you do something she doesn't like.

The differences are quite remarkable, we are trying not to expect her to be a complete little rip of a tomboy.

Gender stereotypes are harmful. They are labels and labels are not helpful to children. Having three older brothers I would play with toy cars, Lego and same outdoor games as older DBs (unsurprisingly) but I was labelled a tomboy. Little girls aren't more complex by nature, we make them that way by reading more into their personalities. Completely unsurprised by the gender experiments above - my dh is one of 4 boys so paternal GPs have little experience of baby girls and all they do with my very energetic dd is coo at her while she tries to escape to play or looks bored!