Please help: 10 week old who WILL NOT sleep between 7 & 10.30

[shouldIbecrossaboutthis]

My son is adorable & I love him to pieces but every night is getting more and more frustrating with his early evening sleep. He is tired. He is exhausted in fact but he will not go to sleep.

I can't hold him, rock him, pat him, put him in a sling, drive him in the car etc etc as I have a broken back and he weighs 14lbs.

I have DP but he is useless. The baby gooes down fine for all his other naps and sleeps long stretches at night. He isn't hungry, dirty or windy so why dear god does he do this? He can't be over tired as he has only been awake for 50 minutes! I've tried chaning his 'awake' time before bed but it makes no difference.

Please don't misunderstand this thread, I am not upset that my baby doesn't sleep enough, I'm upset that he is tired & crying because of it but I am phsyically unable to soothe him!

ARGH! I breasfeed by the way and that doesn't help :(

Colic? Have you tried colief and or cranial osteopathy? What if you lie down on your bed with him?

Most newborns don't "go to bed" at a set time. Let him stay up with you until it is your bedtime.

stainesmassif - It's not colic because he doesn't cry. If you just leave him on your lap he's happy as Larry, he only gets cross if you try and get him to sleep. If I lie in bed, or sofa or anywhere with him, he just lies there. He does sometimes close his eyes for 2-3 minutes but then wakes. He then cries and takes about 20 mins to soothe. If we lie in the pitch black he cries after about 10 minutes of lying there and if we lie there with the street lights coming through he will lie there for 4 hours and only cry after nodding off.

AfterEightMintyy - I don't really want him to go to bed as such. I just know he is over tired & it can not be nice for him? He will literally sit from say 6.45pm until 10.30pm (and we've sat in lots of different places, a dark room, a dim room, a room with music, a room with white noise, in his bouncy chair, etc etc) with wide glazed eyes (clearly overtired), he then has his milk when he wants it which is usually about 10pm and goes 'to bed' with us about 10.45pm.

He usually screams blue murder for 5-10 minutes then sleeps on and off for an hour before going to sleep properly at 12am ish. He wakes up at 8am for a feed and goes straight back to sleep until about 10-11am! I've tried waking him earlier to see if this has a knock on effect on his evening, but it just means he doesn't sleep properly all day (as in has 1.5 hours sleep in a 15 hour period!).

QTPie - yup and we've tried 3 variations of it!

1. with book 2. with no book and light show instead and 3. with nothing, just bath, boobs, cuddle, bed. I'm wondering if the bath is causing the problem, can this be the case for some children, I might have a google. He loves the bath and does go crazy mad splashing around, but by the time he has got dressed and had his milk he is usually very sleepy to the extent of nodding off. It is when I put him down that we have the problem, he either sleeps for 5-20 minutes then wakes crying or cries straight away. He can self settle to a degree, but wont at all at night :(

Any help would be amazing because It's making me so sad that I can not physically help him through what must be a tricky time fo the day for him [cry]

His cot is next to my bed and I've been doing shushh pat for the last 6 days now :( it hasn't worked on any night and I have ti stop after about 60-90 minutes as it just hurts my back too much - it literally is fractured.

I've tried earlier and later bath. I think you're right the timings just aren't working for him, but I don't get where we are going wrong. He's lying down next to me at the moment on the sofa, he's kicking his arms and legs around.

If I could jut hold him for long enough I'm sure he would go into a deep sleep and then I could put him down / have him on me.

I found the 7-10pm period the hardest with my two. Eveyone is shattered by then but they were really unsettled. I used to bring the pram into the living room and rock them back and forth in front of the telly just to get some PEACE. The only thing that fixed it was time. But they both started going down about 12 weeks I think. Good luck

You might not like this advice, but you need to start his morning earlier. Try to wake him at 7am, then keep him awake for 90mins, then back for another nap, don't worry if he can't stay awake the full 90 mins at first, just try. If he's been awake 90 mins he should be tired enough to then sleep another 90 mins,then the cycle continues.

I reckon about three days of being consistent with the morning routine will soon show an impact on his evening routine.

Sounds like he wants to cluster feed to me. The kellymom site will probably have better advise on cluster feeding. Stick with it though, it will get better, he's just wants to increase your supply and this is the best way of doing it.

Sounds like he wants to cluster feed to me too. You have described exactly how my DD was - and I used to have to feed her every hour through the evening.

Yep, another vote for cluster feeding. How often do you feed him in the evening?

Sounds like this is just his 'awake time' - my DTs went through this at pretty much the same age and I nearly drove myself crazy trying to get them to sleep and in a routine that wasn't going to happen. In the end I just accepted it and that was our playtime for a couple of months until they settled into more of a routine. By four months they were sleeping from about 7pm until about 5am then back to sleep about 6am until about 10am - they just seemed to accept a routine better then.

So basically, if you're cool with that being the time he wants to be awake from then just go with it would be my advice

If he's not upset, why can't you just sit and feed/cuddle him while you watch TV? This is what most little babies do by the way.

I don't get what the problem is personally. DS was like this too and I just used to let him lie/sit on my knee or in a bouncy chair until we went to bed. If I wanted to go to bed early, then I'd put him in bed next to me and let him lie there awake while I slept - as long as they're happy and you can do what you need to do, then there's no problem, surely? You described him as "happy as larry" in your OP so I'd just leave him to it. There's time enough for bedtimes when he's at nursery etc - just enjoy him :)

I don't know where people get this idea that little babies need to be upstairs in bed on their own?

ZuluWarrior, I might have to give this a go; I'm just scared it will have a knock on effect with his other naps which he goes down perfectly for. What do you think?

barleysugar, I've been bringing his morning forward by 15 minutes every morning for the last fortnight or so. He got up at 8am for the last 4 days & today, slept 10-12, 1.45-2.45, 3.30-4.30, 5.30-6. He can't sustain a 90 minute cycle throughout the day, somtimes he is tired before & sometimes earlier. You'd never think this but I've been a nanny for years & looked after loads of children including sleep training, I don't feel like it's a scheduling problem.

Fairyegg & CoolaYuleA, I do offer him the boob (he does have an 8oz bottle after his bath mind!) but he never wants it for more than 2-3mins then crys. He's never cluster fed & to be honest I couldn't hold for 4 hours. He does have a dummy though.

I'm now convinced it's the bath, he screams blue murder when we get him out. I thought he might just not like the cold but it never is cold. Maybe he screams because he wants to stay in & is mid play then 30mins later I'm forcing him into a dark quiet room?

He's asleep now, he hid in my armpit lying on the sofa & zoned out.

QTPie,thanks for the support, DP is usually doing work or out, when he is here he hold him & he does go off after about 45min of holding.

All the people saying this is his awake time - what, 6/7 straight hours? Is that ok for a 10 week old? I have no problem with him being awake, I stay awake late myself, but that seems such a long time to me?

SamSmalaidh - my spine is fractured, my baby weighs over 14lbs. I would love to sit and cuddle him but I can't!!!

AfterEightMintyy - 'I don't know where people get this idea that little babies need to be upstairs in bed on their own? ' Neither do I

I can't remember TBH, but I think by 10 weeks they're probably likely to have at least one long awake period in the day?

I doubt he's upset about playing in the bath, it does feel cold when you step out of a bath, even in a warm room so he probably is reacting to that.

You can't sit with him next to you on the sofa?

Sounds like the problem is your DH - if your spine fracture is that disabling then he needs to be at home to look after the baby.

But he doesn't cry when we get out of the swimming pool? Hmm curious.

He also cries for quite a while, long after getting dressed & his towel is on him within a few seconds and I warm it. Hope I don't sound dismissive Bertie, just bouncing ideas around trying to find a possible answer, although there might not be one, I know that!

It's just so frustrating not being able to hold him, maybe he's totally fine being awake this long & I'm projecting my issues of not being able to hold him.

Sorry if I'm missing something, but I'm not sure what the problem is? He's awake, but not crying. He's happy to lie next to you, sit on your lap, etc. He just isn't actually sleeping for that period. Does it matter? Really?

He's so little that his habits will change again in a matter of weeks so could you just not keep him with you downstairs, in his bouncer or on your knee, until you go to bed?

BTW, he sleeps from 12 until 8?!

Sorry, I missed the bit about you not being able to hold him. That must be tough. Could you put a moses basket next to the sofa so that you could lie with your arm across him (or a similar scenario that works with your abilities?)

ATruthUniversallyAcknowledged, mums are funny aren't they! You're envious of his 12-8, I'm worried his 12-8 is because I can't help him get to sleep early evening, so he has a massive deficit & is so exhausted due to my negligence he does an 8 hour stretch!

I feel like he wants to be asleep, but can't go off by himself as he seems over stimulated & like he needs a cuddle to unwind and nod off. But I can't hold him long enough to help him.

I really didn't think a ten week old would enjoy being awake quite so long, so feel like I ought to be helping him. But everyone else thinks a long stretch is ok? I swear I've read it's damaging / bad in some way. Will investigate tomorrow!

PS. He will not go in his moses basket in the evening, I think it's because I'm not close enough to him. His cot in open on one side so if he is in there I'm practically in there with him so even though he doesn't sleep he will lie there flailing away for hours!