Is my nearly 3 year old boistrous or dreadful? Help me sort this out.

[longneckgiraffe]

Did any of you read the restaurant thread where the Aunt stopped one of the nephews from running round and round the dining table?

That could be my toddler except I do intervene, I try to distract, I speak firmly and sometimes shout, scoop him him etc. But once he has decided to be a pain (which is almost always straight away) then he will just scream and scream and squirm when I pick him up or stop him, and every time he is put back down he will run off and do the same thing again.

It is annoying and sometimes embarassing. The most annoying part of it is, he has two older brothers, and the 2 year old's behaviour is really restricting what I can do with them.

We try to go somewhere (eg library, but it could be almost anywhere) and for 5 minutes max he is calmly exploring or interacting. After that his behaviour deteriorates until he becomes a nuisance or a danger to himself. I have to pick hijm up and struggle to hold onto him, all the while he is struggling and screaming. So the other two children get no attention and we end up having to go home.

Examples of unacceptable behaviour in a library, standing on books to get my attention, climbing onto floor based the toddler book display, standing on the bottom shelf of the junior fiction, jumping on the comfy chairs, climbing onto the swivel chairs and swinging them around, crawling through underneath the junior book stands, generally running around. I stop him from doing these things but as soon as I have finished he does it again.

Maybe I have forgotten and this is the terrible twos that people speak about???

What is going on and any ideas what I can do about it?

Yes, if he was my only child I wouldn't go to these places, or would only go for 15 minutes and give him lots of attention.

Oh yes, getting out of pushchair, squirming and screaming refusing to hold my hand on the pavement, running off etc

Anyone else's 2/3 year old like this?

Didn't want to read and run. Poor you it sounds very wearing. I do have a 3 yo but she isn't on you sons level of spiritedness!

Do you punish his behaviour? Have you found his Achilles heel. (loss of toy,chocolate, tv, whatever) Threaten him, if he continues carry out threat at all costs. After a few times he will see you're being serious and think twice about being such a pain. Or how about rewarding good behaviour, crack open the chocolate buttons.

I'm Probably teaching you to suck eggs if he's your third!

Consequences? If my nearly 3yr old did that I think I'd strap her in the buggy for a bit!
Take toys, books, colouring and snacks! My DD staggers around causing utter mayhem when she is hungry!!
She reacts well to choices. Either hold my hand nicely or ...
I have to give her a few seconds to decide but she normally opts to do what I've asked her to.
Poor you. You must be shattered. I call my days at home with her more difficult behaviour the toddler wrangling ones!

I think in the library setting I'd try and find some things that weren't too disruptive and let him do them. Some of the things you describe don't sound too bad (though of course I don't know the setting). Basically I try and let DS do as much as poss what he wants as long as its not dangerous/damaging/ bothering others but then come down very firm if he crosses the line. Hope that makes sense

Yes I think I do need some power back, or at least recognition by him that he needs to behave appropriately

Am I being hopelessly optimistic about this, but I never liked the idea of bribery or threats - I wanted my kids to do as they were told because I was their parent and am in charge

I do deal with his behaviour, but as soon as I let him go he starts again. Or I will stand him in front of me to tell him off and he will be squirming and crawling away - you cant make a 2 year old stand up in front of you if they dont want to (can you?)

I use "naughty step" at home (but it doesn't have a name) but it has no effect, I mean it does nothing to prevent the behaviour occurring again

Eg I'd probably let him play on swivel chairs as long as no one else needed them or was being disturbed

The library staff were frowning and glancing at me so I guess it is not socially acceptable for toddlers to swivel on their swivel chairs?!! Plus I felt it was a little dangerous for him.

My ultimate threat at toddler groups etc is that I'll strap him into pushchair if he doesn't behave

Ok fair enough, I don't think it would be frowned upon at my local library, they're pretty tolerant of noisy toddlers! (or maybe I'm just oblivious )

My DD is like this, I thought my DS was bad but she has mastered the art of public embarrassment. She can be very endearing and sweet when out and about but if you try and do anything to stop her when she is a bit boisterous she will cause an enormous fuss and draws a lot of attention . I like to think is personality and not my parenting skills, it's very wearing though. She's 2.5 btw.

Yes, to finding what works as a threat or punishment - there will be something! Eg DD has time out on a naughty cushion (with a substitute I'd we are out and about), and often the threat of having to sit on the cushion for two minutes is enough to get her to behave. I remember DS had one of his Thomas trains taken away from him at about this age every time he was naughty, and at one point it was like Clapham Junction on the shelf...but then he started behaving better and they all came down.

I know what you mean about wanting them to do as they're asked because they have been asked, not because they don't like the consequences of not doing as asked. But I've come to the conclusion that that is too complex for very small people to get, and sometimes a visual cue (like the cushion coming out, or a train being put up on the shelf) helps them understand that what they are doing / not doing is unacceptable.

There is hope - after all, he does behave for short periods of time, and you need to work on extending the time that he behaves for.

Been there - small child with two older ones, and it does restrict what you can do. Basically you have to outsmart him with the co-operation of your older two.

eg library visit - have everything as ready as you can before you get there, including thepil e of books to return, and make it into a game for your older ones "OK guys, you've got 2 minutes to find one great book to take home" - make your visits to the library super short, and get him out of there before he causes a problem, then praise his good behaviour. Each time you go, stay a little longer. You might have to go several times a week at first.

Is there a very special toy that he can have for a few minutes only when you go to the library? It appears only when you arrive at the library and is put away as soon as you leave (even for the very short visits) - that way he will want to go there and stay for longer. Obviously he and toy are removed the second he starts to misbehave. Instant consequences are the only thing that work for this age-group!

I had a very large escape proof play-pen when mine were this age, and I frequently deployed it at home to either confine the misbehaving one, or provide a refuge for another child if the toddler was creating havoc.

Your dc sounds boisterous and perhaps needs boundaries reaffirming.
My dd2 is 2.8 and loves a good scream/tantrum when in public
I try and remove her and if I must get my job done before than she can keep screaming on the floor.

Just make sure you show no weakness woman!!

ha ha ha am feeling a bit better about it, I feel like it might be all normal and just a phase to work through

I think my renewed focus will be on trying to arrange things so the others can enjoy outings without me having to keep leaving quickly - also on short visits to places designed to "train" him rather than as an outing

So glad you posted this, OP! My DD is 2.7, I'm permanently exhausted. Normally she's pretty good, but she does things like:

• refuse to eat anything, then whinge when the food she didn't want is taken away from her "I don't like carrots!" "But I'm hungry!" "I want my carrots back!" "But I don't like carrots!"
• ask for something, get it, insist she didn't want it in the first place and then whinge when it's taken away again "But I WAAAAANTED the crayon!"
• find the one thing that will cause total destruction - usually at ILs, yesterday it was the Christmas tree - if I have the temerity to sit down, or go to the loo, or something selfish like that, meaning that ILs look askance at me. The colouring book I brought held no interest because it had been used on the sodding journey and was much less interesting than finding out how the tree lights worked.

It's so full on. We have a very specific reward chart for behaviour at nursery (she was getting into trouble for selective hearing), but I don't want to confuse things by having 26 reward charts for 'thou shalt sit still', 'thou shalt make up thy mind' 'thou shalt leave the bloody Christmas tree alone', 'thou shalt eat the food that thy mother has prepared for thee with minimal fuss', 'thou shalt accept that 'last time' means what it says and not burst into tears at the word 'no''.

I'm still trying to work out what a really dire consequence would be for her too - we're not using the pushchair any more so threatening to strap her in doesn't really work these days. She's heavy and I have a bad back, so often the 'consequence' of 'I'll pick you up and carry you over my shoulder if you can't behave nicely' is more of a punishment for me than her!

I guess reins are a thought for both of us - providing neither of our beloved offspring can work out how to undo them.....

DS is 22m and is like this. I feel like I'm doing it wrong on a daily basis! He gets a warning and is shown the right way to behave (i.e. don't smack someone, stroke their face nicely). If he does it again he goes on the spot for a minute. He does stay there and does seem to not do the same thing again after but he has a short memory. He pushes if someone gets close to his toy. He has just learnt "mine" "mummy's" etc so is very possessive of things. I get so embarrassed when he pushes. He doesn't get away with it but I still feel like others must think I'm a crap mum.

Another thing that works is saying I'll take away his Peppa Pig toy/turning Peppa Pig off. One follow through on that promise was all it took, now if I say I will take it away he starts behaving!