Is my brother-in-law a paedophile?

[Marmitelover72]

Hi I'm not sure if I'm in the right forum section but desperately need some advice...sorry this is long!

I have 2 boys aged 2 and 4. Sadly my elsest has special needs, severe speech, language and communication disorder so very vulnerable. We live down south and as most of my husband's famIly live up north, whenever they come over they stay for a good few days. My husband is very close to his 40 year old brother and I have always got on fine with him. The kids love him as he's just like a big kid himself and gives them so much attention, chase, rumble and tumble, pretends to be spiderman, buys them gifts etc so you could say he's the perfect uncle. However something has been bugging me the last few times we have seen him. God I don't know how to explain this....

A few weeks ago when he was here he offered to change my 2 year olds nappy. As I was busy doing something else, I happily agreed to this . They were upstairs for a while so I went up to see them and he had removed my sons nappy but hadn't put a new one on.
So he was just wearing a little vest. They were sat facing each other on the floor playing a ball game. I asked him why he hadn't got him dressed again and he just said "I thought it would do his skin good to have no nappy on for a bit." I found this quite odd seeing as he's not even a parent. It made me feel uncomfortable somehow. I tried to put any negative thought out my head.

Then last weekend we went up to my husbands parents for a few days. As soon as we arrived, the boys uncle was already there waiting as he lives local to them. He was playing with them, tickling them as usual and they were loving it. After we had tea, my eldest said he needed the toilet and straight away he offered to take him. I said "oh don't worry, he can go himself". 5 mins later he offered to give them a bath. I told him no need as they had already had one that morning. Then when I went into our guest room to unpack a few bits and get their pyjamas ready etc, my youngest was running around in the nude being a looney jumping off the bed etc and the uncle came in and started playing with him, he then made some comment like "look at you with your willy out, do you want me to flick it?" My gut feeling is that something isn't right and I haven't stopped thinking about it. I haven't told anyone as firstly he hasn't really done anything wrong and secondly just because my gut feeling tells me this is wrong i don't have any proof. I can't even tell my husband as he will think I'm being ridiculous plus the last thing I want to do is split the family up. Just so hard knowing what to do as whilst I can't tell anyone, all I want to do is protect my children more than anything just like any mum would.

Another thing that is bugging me is when my eldest was just 2 years old (so a couple of yrs ago), he took him to the park one winter, they were gone for absolutely ages to the point where me and DH were worried something had happened to them both. When they returned my son was so so upset, i had never seen him this upet before, and I could not console him. He cried for 2 hours. When I asked his uncle what had happened to upset him so much he simply told me that he was really cold. I remember going mental at the time and saying to my mum something wasn't right!!!

Please can someone tell me what I should do. Is this inappropriate behaviour? Or am I being silly? And if you were in my shoes what would you do with such little proof?

Thanks for reading

Actually that is the one thing I would add, because in reality, it is going to be nearly impossible for you to prevent your bil having any access to your children, he's bound to have opportunities no matter how vigilent you try to be. The next best thing really is to show him clearly you are alert to him. Next time something odd happens, allow yourself to react enough for him to know you are not comfortable with whatever he has said/done. Try and create some discomfort so he doesn't feel so free with your boys.

Abuse is insidious. Parents are part of the target, if the parents trst you, you get access. Once an abuser has trust, the child is extremely vulnerable. I've read cases where a child was abused in the back of a car while mum drove. You cannot underestimate and the only thing that can prevent is your instinct. By the time there is proof, it's too late.

No, I wouldn't like this either.

On the one hand it could all be innocent, there's nothing wrong with someone being a fun uncle and hands-on but there are just too many "little things" that all add up to a slightly dodgy picture.

I do think it's odd that he didn't put the nappy back on the child immediately and that the willy-flicking comment was strange. My sister is a youth-worker and tickling is IIRC one of the things she regards as suspicious.

I think you need to tread a careful line here because if your instincts are not right and you steam in then the damage caused will be irreparable.

Someone further upthread suggested saying that you are teaching your children that their bodies are private and that is a brilliant suggestion and, played right, one that could protect your children whilst avoiding any confrontation with your husband.

Children with communication problems like your eldest often have difficulty interpreting body language or sensing danger. You can say that it is vital that you are consistent in teaching him that only mummy and daddy can bath him, help him go to the toilet etc. For the sake of consistency and understanding it's best that he sees the same thing happening with your youngest. If I were you, the only thing I would say to your OH at this stage is that the person/people involved with your eldest's special needs help is that it is important that he understands this for his own safety and just mention in passing that you realise this might be hurtful to his brother when you say no more bathing/changing nappies etc you are sure he will understand that it's for your son's safety as otherwise anyone could take advantage of him.

That's what you need to say - when he comes for Christmas just make sure he's not alone with the children for any length of time. I wouldn't fret about tickling tbh - I think it's sad that this is seen as a flag by youth workers.

You need to balance your need to protect your children with the possibility that your instincts are wrong. I think that if you are vigilant and don't give BIL the chance to abuse your boys then things should be fine. Don't be frightened though, if he says/does anything odd in your presence again, to say "that's a bit of an inappropriate thing to say" or "that makes me feel a bit uncomfortable, why would you say something like that"

Hope this helps - might be a better option than having a huge row with your OH x

I think the important thing for weighing up 'red flag' vs 'not over-reacting' is about proportions.

If someone is very involved in your childrens lives and helps out in lots of ways, then that is likely to include but not be limited to nappies and baths.

Similarly if someone in your life tends to volunteer themselves for all the messy jobs then that is likely to include but not be limited to nappies.

So, if someone happens to volunteer to do those things, but they are also likely to volunteer to make up bottles, amuse fractious children, and help with everything else and/or they are also the one fetching the bucket when you throw up, cleaning up after the dog, etc, then it's probably not an issue.

It's when someone who doesn't do much else with your children, and doesn't generally volunteer for mucky tasks, specifically seems to be always volunteering for the jobs which include near-naked children that it is fair game to wonder why that might be the case.

It doesn't prove it - they may have just heard a heart-felt plea from another parent that no-one ever volunteers for nappy duty and feel they are helping you out. But it's reasonable to think about it, and to consider whether you need to be a bit more cautious around them.

Tickling is not actually v enjoyable and it gives the tickler power over the ticklee. It's something that people who don't understand children v well do to try to appear great with kids.

The nappy changes, willy flicking is totally inappropriate and it appears your bil has no insight into his behaviour.

Your boys need you to protect them from this man.

Hard. You and your dh have to be on the same page and he's in for a shock, but it has to be done for the children's safety.

I wonder if you could obtain some guidance from the NSPCC... sorry OP it's painful. Have been through similar, v stressful. Glad you are getting lots of kind and helpful responses in here

I was abused by a man who used tickling as the first step to other things.

Hi, I know how you feel as I went through something similar, my sisters partner was acting very odd around my children too. Especially my ds. Too much to write down but long story short I went online and get the details of how to do a police check on him. It can tell you if they have ever been reported for something of that nature before and like someone said before taught my ds about our "private" parts and openly discussed this with my family in front of him. I really think this is your best route as he didn't try any odd behaviour again and my him and my sister broke up after her baby was born. Have not seen him since last Christmas :-) x

I think talking about this issue with your DH will be better, because he is the brother he will know better if his brother has the capability to be a paedophile or maybe he is just excited to be a parent/father.
My brother is also playful with the kids and also we also joke the kids about the flickering things though he never offered to change any of the kids diaper, but I must admit mother's instinct should not be ignore. So talk with your DH and solved what is the next moved both of you will do for this issue. Goodluck!

Went cold when I read this thread :(.

If I were you I'd begin the conversation by saying - your brother said something I felt very uncomfortable about last weekend ... Then explain the flicking comment and see how he reacts. I agree he needs to know but completly understand its Really tough for you. We found out some stuff about my dads uncle who use to try it on with boys, made me feel sick to the stomach & want to find said uncle who is still alive and chop it off quite frankly! We also had a random relative who liked to tickle a lot and I always remember hiding behind my mum as a kid when he was there. My gut feeling as an adult is that he was not right.

Hope the conversation goes well, keep us posted. Really feel for you.

It's difficult as others have said you've listed how hands on he is at volunteering for happy change, baths etc but not other things, if he's hands on with everything then maybe u are being over cautious and honing in on the happy changes etc.
The flicking thing is bizarre but not totally out there, I often tell my DS and possibly friends DS's to put their pants on else a birdie will fly down and peck it off, maybe the flicking thing is a variation on that, maybe his DM used to say it to him?
Just putting out all possibilities.
How do u think DH will react? Is he generally calm and weighs things up? Or will he likely be shocked and angry?
Either way u have to make sure DBil is not left along with them and keep them covered up, no more naked messing around when he's around.

what an uncomfortable situation for you.
Did he know you could hear the flicking comment?

Did you say anything to him at the time?

I'm not going to name the country for fear of upsetting a whole nation but I have a bunch of relatives in another , English speaking country whose sense of play and humour regards boy children is exactly like that and it makes me cringe every time. In their case there is definitely nothing sinister going on , it's just a really odd cultural thing.

Have you had a chance to speak to your husband?

Just another though...say your instincts are right, but you don't say anything to you DH for fear of your relationship falling off a cliff...what happens if something happens in the future with this man? Would you tell DH that you knew something was wrong previously? How would he react if you knew something and didn't tell him?

For me there would be no question. Tell DH and protect the kids, at all costs. Don't wait until it's too late. You have more to lose than gain by keeping your feelings from your DH.

Just been reading through all of this, hope you managed to speak to DH about it

Hope it went ok op, been thinking of you x

Is there a chance that he didn't put the nappy back on because he didn't know how?? Or ds wriggled too much & he was embarrassed to say he couldn't get the nappy on? (clutching at straws..)

Anyone who thinks they can excuse someone who thinks its ok to flick someone's willy, is, quite frankly, off their rocker.

Keep this man away from your children.

There are no suspicions, this is real FFS.

He didn't flick, he said something like "shall I...." My ds's grandfather used to talk about cutting off any willies he saw. He wasn't a paedophile. The OP's bil may or may not be a paedophile, but I wouldn't convict a dog on the evidence given on this thread.

I agree that there's not enough 'evidence' to 'convict'. But I also agree strongly with those who've suggested letting BIL know in no uncertain terms that you are uncomfortable with his behaviour, regardless of whether you take it any further, and that it's hands off with your children now. I am a childminder and one of the things we were taught in safeguarding training is that potential abusers are often very easily put off - if they think there's the slightest chance they've been rumbled or that someone is being vigilant then they will back off.

You couldn't convict him, of course not. But I wouldn't leave my child alone with him either.

Good advice about firing a warning shot to him that you are not happy with his inappropriate behaviour. You are right to protect your DS by not leaving them alone with him / teaching them that their bodies are their own etc, but you may need backup from your DH as you cannot always be with the DCs 24/7.

I really feel for you as it is an awful position to be in.

I think you'd have to be insane to write it off as within the realms of normal.

"would you like me to flick" is not the same as an empty threat. Not how I read it.

This sort of blasé attitude is exactly why children are more at risk of abuse within their own home by supposedly caring family members. People turn a blind eye, laugh it off and cannot believe that "uncle x/granddad/Aunty" would do such a thing. They think of paedophiles as being scary strangers with long coats and dirty beards or at the other end of a dodgy Facebook account.

iggly I completely agree 'would you like me to flick?' implies that it will feel nice and is very different from 'cover yourself up or I'll chop your willy off' comments from grandparents about wanting to protect modesty.

Actually if this was a girl and a relation(male of female) said 'Shall we touch your breasts?' I think people might see it as more inappropriate.

Don't know why I used breasts as an example

'Shall we rub between your legs?'

Appropriate? Nope, don't think so.

Well said, valium.